How is the Tory government doing?

T.R.O.Y. wrote:If you know it isn't my point, why waste an entire post arguing against it? 

People spread the virus - yes, of course they do I've never said otherwise.

The government control the laws in which people operate. Example, deciding whether schools are open, if we should go back to offices or when restaurants are allowed to open.

Their decision making on the latter has been demonstrably poor, too slow to lockdown and too quick to return.

Your argument that if people simply followed government rules is naive to real world situations and far too simplistic.

Sluffy wrote:The government could have done better of course - all the world's governments could have done better too!  Nobody had any experience of a worldwide pandemic in modern times.  None were prepared for it.  None knew all the answers to it.  It was trial and error, some decisions were the right ones others were the wrong ones.  

But the bottom line is the government DID give the right advise to limit the spread of the virus and the simple fact is that the majority of people DIDN'T follow them.

People spread the virus not governments and if people followed the simple rules in the first place things wouldn't have got so bad as they have and less people would have died.

T.R.O.Y. wrote:Yes you almost sound reasonable there, then you finish with 'it's as simple as people not following the rules' or words to that effect.

That's the statement i'm referring to when i describe your argument as naive and overly simplistic.

Sluffy wrote:Yet again you are just contriving an argument for the sake of it.

Sluffy wrote:

I assume that's aimed at me.

A MINORITY haven't followed the rules... a MINORITY???

I don't know of a single person, including myself, who have followed the rules to the letter from day one.

Of course my 'bending' the rules a bit might only me very minor, I classed myself as a delivery driver in order to take some stuff my daughter needed from my house to hers a few miles away during the first lockdown but although I didn't get out of the car from my door to hers (and hers to mine) and we social distance when I handed her stuff over, it was still strictly speaking wrong to have done so - let me put it this way, I wouldn't dared to have done it if I was a Chinese bloke in China with their harsh treatment to anyone who disobeys.

So where does these types of bending the rules a little bit become full breaking of them, university students enjoying freshers party's because they know Covid is harmless to them, someone having the family and friends round to celebrate their fortieth, hundreds paying their last respects to someone they cared for at their funeral?

Abuse is rife.  Every day the length and breath of the country you can read about people being caught and fined for deliberately flouting simple Covid rules.

As for the government - any government would have given the same simple set of rules, social distance, stay in bubble, wash hands, wear masks in enclosed spaces - do you think people would follow these rules if they had a Labour government rather than a Conservative one???

Of course they wouldn't, they would do what they wanted no matter what political party was in charge.

The government could have done better of course - all the world's governments could have done better too!  Nobody had any experience of a worldwide pandemic in modern times.  None were prepared for it.  None knew all the answers to it.  It was trial and error, some decisions were the right ones others were the wrong ones.  

But the bottom line is the government DID give the right advise to limit the spread of the virus and the simple fact is that the majority of people DIDN'T follow them.

Let me give you just one fact to demonstrate why it is the people who spread the virus and not the government...

Only 18% of people self-isolate after developing coronavirus symptoms, UK study finds.  Research also shows just 11% of people in contact with those testing positive stay at home for 14 days.

Less than one-fifth of people in the UK who develop coronavirus symptoms are following the rules and self-isolating at home, a major new study indicates.

Research led by King’s College London showed most people intended to obey the guidelines and stay at home for 14 days – 70 per cent of those without symptoms said they would be willing to do so.

However, only 18 per cent of people who developed symptoms between March and August said they had actually self-isolated to stop the spread of the virus.

And in a worrying sign for the government’s contact-tracing operation, only 11 per cent of those in contact with someone testing positive for Covid-19 said they had stayed at home for two weeks.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-self-isolation-uk-rules-symptoms-police-fines-b594240.html

So 4 in every 5 people who believe they may well have Coronavirus and have been told to isolate DIDN'T and 9 out of 10 people in the same household and who should have isolated as well DIDN'T EITHER!!!

How the fuck is that the governments fault then that a huge percentage of those  people couldn't be arsed to follow the rules and spread the virus on to many others???

People spread the virus not governments and if people followed the simple rules in the first place things wouldn't have got so bad as they have and less people would have died.

It is as simple as that.

Sluffy wrote:

okocha wrote:I knew someone would bring up the fact that NZ has a less dense population, completely ignoring the points I made about how to manage messaging successfully, no matter what size the population. 

Read posts more carefully before challenging them, or you may get thought of as part of a dense population

okocha wrote:Management of messaging is the issue, not "control"..... although Boris does need to control his aides and ministers so that they set a good example and the tone for the nation.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

What differed in the New Zealand messaging?

T.R.O.Y. wrote:
Considering you jump down the throat of anyone who mentions a government error in this, maybe you could point to a couple of the mistakes you think they've made?

Natasha Whittam wrote:If she was a middle aged chubby man with wild hair would you feel the same?

T.R.O.Y. wrote:At time like this politics should be put to one side as we focus on finding a solution.

Unless of course those politics are Jeremy Corbyns, in which case do the complete opposite.

T.R.O.Y. wrote:At time like this politics should be put to one side as we focus on finding a solution.

Unless of course those politics are Jeremy Corbyns, in which case do the complete opposite.

T.R.O.Y. wrote:Not that I’m aware of, my comment was pointing out the contradiction of Sluffy’s position.

T.R.O.Y. wrote:HA that’s a desperate line Sluffy even by your low standards. 

You clearly meant they could never work with Corbyn on an ideological basis. Admitting fault on the internet really isn’t as bad as you seem to think it is.

Sluffy wrote:I could understand why a coalition with Corbyn could never have worked but once he had gone the Labour party under Starmer should have been brought in to face the virus together and with unity.