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Bolton Nuts » BWFC » Wandering Minds » How is the Tory government doing?

How is the Tory government doing?

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721How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Mon Mar 22 2021, 10:15

okocha

okocha
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Obviously I was talking about the evidence in general against the government since they came into office...not this one specific incident in Bristol, which descended into unacceptable violence. 

However, it's true to say that the police have been asked by the government to do an impossible job and that the decisions made by the Home Office have created the conditions for this outcome on the streets.

722How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Mon Mar 22 2021, 10:37

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
It seems that what began as a peaceful protest was commandeered by “out of towners” who had travelled with the intention of kicking off. 
There will always be extremists and for the most part they tend to come from the poorer tranche of society whether right or left.
My concern is that in pursuing policies that heighten the rift between rich and poor a rise in extremism and political unrest becomes increasingly prevalent.

723How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Mon Mar 22 2021, 13:09

T.R.O.Y.


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Complete idiots who are playing into the Tories hands. The Policing bill that passed second reading last week is dangerous, it wouldn't look out of place in Russia. We can't afford for actions like this to turn public support in its favour.

724How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Mon Mar 22 2021, 13:11

T.R.O.Y.


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@Sluffy wrote:Hislop can mock all he likes, doesn't mean he's right about everything though - I still wait for one piece of hard evidence of corruption, illegality, cronyism or anything else they've been accused of.

He's calling the government incompetent which isn't illegal.

725How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Mon Mar 22 2021, 13:22

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@T.R.O.Y. wrote:
@Sluffy wrote:Hislop can mock all he likes, doesn't mean he's right about everything though - I still wait for one piece of hard evidence of corruption, illegality, cronyism or anything else they've been accused of.

He's calling the government incompetent which isn't illegal.

???

I never said it was???

..dunno..

726How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Mon Mar 22 2021, 14:42

T.R.O.Y.


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
I'm just confused why you would respond to Hisop's comment about incompetence by saying we haven't seen anything illegal?

727How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Mon Mar 22 2021, 15:55

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@T.R.O.Y. wrote:I'm just confused why you would respond to Hisop's comment about incompetence by saying we haven't seen anything illegal?

Because we are governed by laws not opinions.

Apart from fully acknowledging that the publishing of PPE contract details within specified time limits had not been met in the mist of a worldwide pandemic then what illegality has been found to have occurred?

If you give people the impression that corruption, cronyism, incompetence, etc has happened (and still is) then, unfortunately, a huge majority seem to believe it has irrespective of there being no actual proof.

If you then have people on the streets, their anger arising from what they believe, then it is directed at authority - the police yesterday for instance.

Do you beleve many if any of those 'attacking' the police last night don't believe the government to be incompetent and corrupt - yet there isn't actually any proof they have been, only inuendo and the say so of 'influencers' such as Maugham.

What do you think the end goal of all this is, to replace a 'dodgy' Tory government with an 'undodgy' one - of course it isn't it is to bring the government down and replace it with a rival one - Labour being the most obvious.

Of course no government gets everything right and mistakes will be made but where actually is the proof to back up all these claims of cronyism and corruption?

Wind people up and most will react, obviously - you only need look on here to see that!  

But if you get them on the streets and brining chaos to the capital...

How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 _117578911_extreb

...and attacks on the establishment...

How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 _117658525_screenshot2021-03-22090416

How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 E1528b83-c143-4dad-98a5-d8caf0c5e2a2

...then is it any wonder why the establishment looks to protect itself by means of legislation such as the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill?

Seems an obvious link of cause and effect to me - the more the masses are 'agitated' by activists the more the establishment will move to take measures to quell them.  Isn't that obvious?

I have no doubt that if we hadn't seen activists effectively closing down central London for days and statues being torn down. vandalised and thrown into rivers, then measures to stop such things happening in future would not have been needed.

You reap what you sow as they say.

You beat the system from within, not by attacking it from the outside.

If there has been corruption, cronyism, etc, find the proof, take them to court and allow justice to take its course.

Simple, otherwise the alternative is anarchy.

728How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Mon Mar 22 2021, 17:23

T.R.O.Y.


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Which of those protests you include images of we’re about government incompetence or corruption?

729How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Mon Mar 22 2021, 18:06

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@T.R.O.Y. wrote:Which of those protests you include images of we’re about government incompetence or corruption?

None of them, yet at the same time all of them.

You sow hate and mistrust and it pops up wherever it can.

Out of all those protests how many doing the protesting do you think would vote Tory in the next General Elections or two??

I'll even give you a few options to make it easier for you to answer

1 - the vast majority
2 - more than half
3 - less than half and half
4 - the vast minority.

I would say option 4 myself.

Birds of a feather perhaps?



730How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Mon Mar 22 2021, 18:11

T.R.O.Y.


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
So the protests we see these days are the result of misinformation spread by a machiavellian group of influencers. 

In reality the government are performing as well as they can be expected to, but the lies and misinterpretations spread by the likes of Maugham are convincing the masses otherwise, manifesting itself in acts of violence against the state?

731How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Mon Mar 22 2021, 22:09

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@T.R.O.Y. wrote:So the protests we see these days are the result of misinformation spread by a machiavellian group of influencers. 

In reality the government are performing as well as they can be expected to, but the lies and misinterpretations spread by the likes of Maugham are convincing the masses otherwise, manifesting itself in acts of violence against the state?

Well as no one has produced any evidence to substantiate the inuendo/allegations/inferences/slurs/call it what you will, then why is there clearly a belief/perception/acceptance that the government is as atrocious as people clearly believe it to be?  

Could it be that if you throw enough shit some of it will stick perhaps?

And as for those committing violence against the state they aren't doing so because they think the state is doing a good job are they?

If they are raging against the establishment - and there is no proof to back up the constant inuendos being made against it, then they must be believing the inuendos to be true without any proof, what else can it be?

Thankfully there are enough decent folk to call out the hatred of the element wanting to harm the police and property as can be evidenced by the instant condemnation and by the Labour MP's for Bristol and Bristol's Labour Mayor in particular - big credit to them I say.

Unfortunately and fwiw I do think Starmer botched his condemnation by linking it to the policing of the Clapham Common virgil a few days back - he shouldn't have tried to politise his reply as such and just come out and condem what happened in Bristol.

But yes, I do think political games are being played, I do believe it is in many people's interest to cast a negative shadow over the government if they ever want to see it fall anytime soon and an existing 80 seat majority would normally guarantee victory at the next General Election, which would take us through to 2029.

I think some would like to see that never happens though and if we only have the ballot box as a means to change governments then the more people that believe the current Administration is rotten and corrupt then the more people there will be that won't be voting for it in 2024.

First rule of politics and all that.

732How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Mon Mar 22 2021, 22:13

T.R.O.Y.


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Extinction rebellion, Black Lives Matter and Kill the Bill.

Can you explain the ‘innuendo’ you believe forms the basis of each of these causes please?

733How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Mon Mar 22 2021, 22:21

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@T.R.O.Y. wrote:Extinction rebellion, Black Lives Matter and Kill the Bill.

Can you explain the innuendo which form the basis of each of these causes please?

Current Administration doesn't care/doesn't do anything for them.

Therefore support those who want to bring down current Administration and replace it with one they do believe cares/will do things for them.

Quite simple really.

734How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Mon Mar 22 2021, 22:23

okocha

okocha
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
You're wasting your time, TROY. I'm still waiting to see the list of things for which the government is to be praised since coming into offfice, (assistance with NHS vaccine roll-out excluded.)

735How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Mon Mar 22 2021, 22:36

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@okocha wrote:You're wasting your time, TROY. I'm still waiting to see the list of things for which the government is to be praised since coming into offfice, (assistance with NHS vaccine roll-out excluded.)

I beg to differ mate.

I've answered your question.

It's your problem if you don't like my answer, not mine.

So you can stop your trolling before it even starts about this.

736How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Mon Mar 22 2021, 22:37

T.R.O.Y.


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
You haven’t answered his question.

737How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Mon Mar 22 2021, 22:41

T.R.O.Y.


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@Sluffy wrote:

Current Administration doesn't care/doesn't do anything for them.

Therefore support those who want to bring down current Administration and replace it with one they do believe cares/will do things for them.

Quite simple really.

Okay - so your point is the gov are doing as well as can be expected on climate and equality - and the policing bill is proportionate? 

Protestors are only aggravated because of innuendo.

738How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Mon Mar 22 2021, 23:03

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@T.R.O.Y. wrote:
@Sluffy wrote:

Current Administration doesn't care/doesn't do anything for them.

Therefore support those who want to bring down current Administration and replace it with one they do believe cares/will do things for them.

Quite simple really.

Okay - so your point is the gov are doing as well as can be expected on climate and equality - and the policing bill is proportionate? 

Protestors are only aggravated because of innuendo.

Governments have to balance multiple issues with finite resources.

How the cake is sliced may not be to your or my agreement but no government can please everybody.

If protesters believe in issues that might lead in a change to a new government more symathetic to their causes then why should they bother if what they believe is true or not, all that matters to them is that it brings about the result they want.

And yes I have given that account my answer -

@Sluffy wrote:
@okocha wrote:It would be interesting, Sluffy, if you could list all the things that you feel Boris and his ministers should be congratulated for (omitting the roll-out of the vaccine which we can all see the NHS and government have done well)

I also said I wasn't looking to praise the government for doing their job, which the fall in death rate from highest in Europe at the start of the pandemic falling to seventh by December seems to indicate that in comparison to those six country's that overtook us (and probably others too) clearly suggests that the government were dealing better with the pandemic than they were over that period.  I think that is unarguable.

And fwiw, and not that I wished it to happen but the country at the 2019 General Election clearly voted for Johnson's government and it delivered Brexit, unlike May's was unable to.

If you or the other account don't like it, then that's your tough luck.

739How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Thu Mar 25 2021, 11:38

okocha

okocha
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Brilliant summary from John Crace of the acknowledgement of one year since the first lockdown:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/mar/23/boris-johnson-admits-he-will-forever-be-haunted-by-englands-covid-death-toll

740How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Sun Mar 28 2021, 02:08

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@wanderlust wrote:

Just to get back on topic it seems the government is keen on introducing some retrograde environmental policies. 
First they approve the super coal mine, then commit to more nuclear warheads and now this.  What next? Asbestos factories?
Ah...they went for this as their next move.

741How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Sun Mar 28 2021, 11:50

T.R.O.Y.


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
The government understand being 'green' is a vote winner so talk up their credentials and plans at every opportunity. As has often been the case in the last 11 years of Tory rule though, the rhetoric rarely matches the reality.

742How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Sun Mar 28 2021, 14:14

T.R.O.Y.


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Really concerning levels of police violence in Bristol over the last few days, both on journalists and protestors. No matter what side of the political spectrum you're on surely we can all condemn this?





743How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Sun Mar 28 2021, 14:54

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
Seems the police themselves are.



At the end of the day police men and women are only human too and do things wrong like we all do - they can't act perfectly all the time, no one can.

It sort of brings to mind some quote I read somewhere about a terrorist bomb maker saying something like 'you have to stop my bombs going off every time, I only need you to fail once to get my my cause in the papers'.

I don't know how many police where there that night, for how long, or how many protestors they had to deal with and how many interactions between the individuals from both sides occurred - there must have been millions - that's not even considering what provocation there was leading up to the police action that was filmed - so is it really conceivable that everything the police did to uphold the law was done perfectly?

Out of the millions of interactions that occurred that day/night is it right that they are judged on just a handful of occassions they seemingly got it wrong?

If there are bad cops (or police dogs who lose control of themselves) they need to be rooted out, of course, I don't think anyone would say otherwise but to judge the whole of the police based on an few bad ones, is like the bombers bomb going off - he wins the headlines whilst all the million and one good things done to stop him previously are simply not even mentioned.

744How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Sun Mar 28 2021, 18:49

T.R.O.Y.


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
You think that tweet condemns police violence?

745How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Sun Mar 28 2021, 21:27

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@T.R.O.Y. wrote:You think that tweet condemns police violence?

I think the tweet is seeking to hear both sides of the story and establishing the facts before making any judgment.

You know that thing I'm constantly banging on about on here that nobody seems to be bothered about.

746How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Sun Mar 28 2021, 21:33

T.R.O.Y.


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Ha! Please, you condemn when the circumstance suits you and plead for fairness when it doesn’t. You are the least objective poster on here and always have been.

747How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Sun Mar 28 2021, 21:53

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@T.R.O.Y. wrote:Ha! Please, you condemn when the circumstance suits you and plead for fairness when it doesn’t. You are the least objective poster on here and always have been.

If you say so.

I won't lose any sleep over how you or anyone else views me on here.

As far as I'm concerned I'm fair and honest to everyone.

748How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Sun Mar 28 2021, 22:16

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
@Sluffy wrote:

If you say so.

I won't lose any sleep over how you or anyone else views me on here.

As far as I'm concerned I'm fair and honest to everyone.
Did you realise that I tried to sum it up in my laal song, Sluffy

Charlatans, shysters and snotty-nosed herberts

Football supporters in NoKenDo T-shirts

Wussies and pussies who sit in the wings

These are a few of my favourite things


There aren't many herberts on Nuts that come more snotty-nosed than T.R.O.Y.

749How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Sun Mar 28 2021, 23:18

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@Ten Bobsworth wrote:
@Sluffy wrote:

If you say so.

I won't lose any sleep over how you or anyone else views me on here.

As far as I'm concerned I'm fair and honest to everyone.
Did you realise that I tried to sum it up in my laal song, Sluffy

Charlatans, shysters and snotty-nosed herberts

Football supporters in NoKenDo T-shirts

Wussies and pussies who sit in the wings

These are a few of my favourite things


There aren't many herberts on Nuts that come more snotty-nosed than T.R.O.Y.

As they say Bob, 'None so deaf as those that will not hear. None so blind as those that will not see'.

TROY is sadly just one of the majority now who wants only to listen and see the parts that confirm their prejudices and can't be bothered with anything that doesn't fit in with their already closed minds.

The irony which is not lost on me is that nearly all who hate the Tory government out of hand are those most likely to say the believe in fairness and equality.

How fair and equal can you be if you've already made your mind up before listening to the other side of the story???

Whatever happened to being innocent before being proved guilty?

Justice is impartial.

You weigh the truth and judge on that, not the person/political party (Ken Anderson/Tory government) who you just happen to hate.

Might as well talk to the proverbial brick wall than try to reason with some on here.




750How is the Tory government doing? - Page 25 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Mon Mar 29 2021, 02:54

Hip Priest

Hip Priest
Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
@T.R.O.Y. wrote:Ha! Please, you condemn when the circumstance suits you and plead for fairness when it doesn’t. You are the least objective poster on here and always have been.

:agree: :agree: :agree: :toppoints:

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