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How is the Tory government doing?

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boltonbonce
Hipster_Nebula
Whitesince63
Hipster_nebula1
karlypants
wanderlust
Sluffy
Natasha Whittam
Norpig
luckyPeterpiper
Cajunboy
Hip Priest
okocha
finlaymcdanger
18 posters

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801How is the Tory government doing? - Page 41 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Apr 06 2022, 12:30

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

okocha wrote:
Very fair of you, Lusty. I take it all back.....you are as thick as a plank....

Well you say you went to the same school as me...Smile

802How is the Tory government doing? - Page 41 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Apr 06 2022, 12:56

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Sluffy wrote:


Are you implying that Okocha and I are the same person? Surely as an administrator you can see that we're not given that I'm in Norfolk and Okocha is in .....Bolton or somewhere oop north?

Clearly a case of mistaken identity:

How is the Tory government doing? - Page 41 277750196_10159767172883290_2308445143185296287_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=3x1Vu9rbZNIAX8-Iwn5&_nc_oc=AQn7xMhmyiDEMNQTnsgb5HsaOwjrnYOqD3SFXwZitX6rXU4HhFV0rruUYatvVZM1JN4jTyohq-EIqldgI4xkAQt7&_nc_ht=scontent-man2-1

803How is the Tory government doing? - Page 41 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Apr 06 2022, 13:29

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

wanderlust wrote:Are you implying that Okocha and I are the same person? Surely as an administrator you can see that we're not given that I'm in Norfolk and Okocha is in .....Bolton or somewhere oop north?

Clearly a case of mistaken identity:

Nope, no mistaken identity, just stating a truism.

I've no idea if you post on here under different aliases - you clearly do elsewhere as we've seen with your Hoppy510 account which you strenuously, vociferously and frequently denied was you for two years or so - but you were telling blatant lies which more than a few of here swallowed and directly led to the creation of a large chunk of the toxicity on here which significantly damaged the forum.

I don't believe that you are behind the Okocha account - I posted what I did to show what lies and deceit can and does lead to.

As for ip address verification - that's easily got around these days.

804How is the Tory government doing? - Page 41 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Apr 06 2022, 13:49

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

okocha wrote:
Very fair of you, Lusty. I take it all back.....you are as thick as a plank....
And knows nothing about chins. Smile

805How is the Tory government doing? - Page 41 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Apr 06 2022, 14:36

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

boltonbonce wrote:
And knows nothing about chins. Smile
Now I'm hurt.

806How is the Tory government doing? - Page 41 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Apr 06 2022, 17:02

Whitesince63


El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

wanderlust wrote:
Of course not.

I am questioning why the government is too stupid to set up a simple system to run security checks on immigrants, issue identity cards, and match them with jobs in the sectors we are grossly understaffed in such as food production where the latest estimates say we are short of half a million workers.

Other countries have no problem in setting conditions of entry that include no state benefits unless you contribute, having a job to go to and paying taxes but it is obviously beyond the wit of these idiots.

Instead, they'd rather make us - the taxpayer - pay 4 times:

- the cost of their ridiculous efforts to keep immigrants out regardless of their skill set
- the cost of sending our food production to landfill and slaughtering tens of thousands of pigs and sheep which altogether runs into £ billions wasted
- the cost of rising food prices to consumers as a result
- the cost of failing food sector businesses and benefits to people who can no longer earn enough to pay the rising costs the government is partially responsible for creating

And who knows - amongst the immigrants there may be much-needed doctors, nurses, policemen, engineers, construction workers etc?

Surely you agree that stopping access to benefits unless contributing (for say a minimum of three years), issuing residential ID cards and investing in the vetting and support of workers into targeted jobs - and thereby further offsetting costs with tax revenue is the way to go?

If the fear of Brexiteers is unregulated immigration, one crystal clear "Brexit Opportunity" - which the government have failed to grasp - is the opportunity to create clear, unambiguous criteria for immigration (and for refugees for that matter) backed up with a smart streamlined process to get the people that we need into the jobs we can't fill - and we can pay for the service/admin, housing and support with the savings and profits our industries will make, our increased production, and the taxes we generate from both the businesses and individuals.
An improved NHS and fresher and cheaper foodstuffs would be the cherry on top.
Unfortunately being a simple, uneducated soul as Oko says, I’m nowhere near qualified to respond properly to your most eloquent and detailed reply but I do have a good deal of common sense and prefer to take a pragmatic rather than simplistic view on things.

In fairness Lusty, much of what you say is reasonable and sensible apart from being totally unrealistic in practise. I suppose you need to start with who you believe these people are in the first place, refugees or economic migrants. To me the vast majority are not refugees and are not fleeing terror but have seen a better life here than where they were. Now I have only admiration for those who want to better themselves but I have a problem with those who run away because the grass is greener somewhere else rather than stay and fight for your own country to improve.

I accept that’s difficult but for thousands of years that’s what people here did when invaders came and it’s what built our country into probably the most tolerant and understanding country in the world. Forget the Brexit cracks because it’s nothing to do with Brexit. Most of these people are coming here attracted by our benefits system, I’m 100% in agreement with you on that and changing that in my opinion would have the biggest effect of anything in reducing numbers coming here. Why they don’t do that I don’t know but just accepting everybody in here and setting them to work sounds good but is totally impractical. The first priority of any government is the protection of its people and given where most of these young men are coming from, to let them in without knowing who they are or what their background is, is completely out of the question. It’s a difficult quandry to solve and I don’t think dispatching these people to some other place is any kind of a solution but neither is what you suggest, sensible as it may sound on the face of it.

807How is the Tory government doing? - Page 41 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Thu Apr 07 2022, 01:33

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Whitesince63 wrote:
Unfortunately being a simple, uneducated soul as Oko says, I’m nowhere near qualified to respond properly to your most eloquent and detailed reply but I do have a good deal of common sense and prefer to take a pragmatic rather than simplistic view on things.

In fairness Lusty, much of what you say is reasonable and sensible apart from being totally unrealistic in practise. I suppose you need to start with who you believe these people are in the first place, refugees or economic migrants. To me the vast majority are not refugees and are not fleeing terror but have seen a better life here than where they were. Now I have only admiration for those who want to better themselves but I have a problem with those who run away because the grass is greener somewhere else rather than stay and fight for your own country to improve.

I accept that’s difficult but for thousands of years that’s what people here did when invaders came and it’s what built our country into probably the most tolerant and understanding country in the world. Forget the Brexit cracks because it’s nothing to do with Brexit. Most of these people are coming here attracted by our benefits system, I’m 100% in agreement with you on that and changing that in my opinion would have the biggest effect of anything in reducing numbers coming here. Why they don’t do that I don’t know but just accepting everybody in here and setting them to work sounds good but is totally impractical. The first priority of any government is the protection of its people and given where most of these young men are coming from, to let them in without knowing who they are or what their background is, is completely out of the question. It’s a difficult quandry to solve and I don’t think dispatching these people to some other place is any kind of a solution but neither is what you suggest, sensible as it may sound on the face of it.
What problem do you see that is insurmountable?

Put it this way. If we do what the government is proposing it's going to cost billions, close businesses and raise prices - which means the government is less able to "protect it's own people" as you call it. It's f****** it's own people.

Given that, what is it that's "impractical" that we aren't smart enough to resolve? Are you saying we Brits are too thick to sort it out so we'll just have to accept what comes?

808How is the Tory government doing? - Page 41 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Thu Apr 07 2022, 08:57

Whitesince63


El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

You’re suggestions sound brilliant on the face of it Lusty but in reality are both impractical and in some cases probably infringe the law. We can’t force immigrants to do either public service work or crop picking as you suggest as I’m sure it could infringe their human rights. It would be wonderful if most of these people were highly educated or doctors, scientists or engineers but the likelihood is that they aren’t educated, have no skills to speak of and don’t speak the language anyway. The majority would likely disappear into the murky world of crime and black market gangs, or even worse, terrorist groups. 

These people come from completely different cultures and societies, have different religions and habits and mainly from non democratic countries and you can’t just expect them to automatically fit in. Also, if you aren’t going to limit the numbers where are you going to house them, educate them and heal them when they’re sick? We already have numbers coming each year approximately the population of somewhere like Coventry. We have an NHS waiting list of over 6 million, our own people sleeping on the streets and now a considerable number more in poverty due to the energy increases and inflationary situation, so isn’t it better to address that first before encouraging even more migrants to come here?

Like most, including Brexiteers, I’m not at all against immigration for those wishing and able to make a valid contribution here, or for genuine refugees as we’re now seeing from Ukraine and who are definitely fleeing terror but the simple fact is that the majority coming across aren’t fleeing terror and as you yourself have admitted, are purely financial migrants coming here to get what they can. I don’t blame them for that but I do blame us for allowing it and more so for people like you who encourage it.

809How is the Tory government doing? - Page 41 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Thu Apr 07 2022, 11:14

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Whitesince63 wrote:You’re suggestions sound brilliant on the face of it Lusty but in reality are both impractical and in some cases probably infringe the law. We can’t force immigrants to do either public service work or crop picking as you suggest as I’m sure it could infringe their human rights. It would be wonderful if most of these people were highly educated or doctors, scientists or engineers but the likelihood is that they aren’t educated, have no skills to speak of and don’t speak the language anyway. The majority would likely disappear into the murky world of crime and black market gangs, or even worse, terrorist groups. 

These people come from completely different cultures and societies, have different religions and habits and mainly from non democratic countries and you can’t just expect them to automatically fit in. Also, if you aren’t going to limit the numbers where are you going to house them, educate them and heal them when they’re sick? We already have numbers coming each year approximately the population of somewhere like Coventry. We have an NHS waiting list of over 6 million, our own people sleeping on the streets and now a considerable number more in poverty due to the energy increases and inflationary situation, so isn’t it better to address that first before encouraging even more migrants to come here?

Like most, including Brexiteers, I’m not at all against immigration for those wishing and able to make a valid contribution here, or for genuine refugees as we’re now seeing from Ukraine and who are definitely fleeing terror but the simple fact is that the majority coming across aren’t fleeing terror and as you yourself have admitted, are purely financial migrants coming here to get what they can. I don’t blame them for that but I do blame us for allowing it and more so for people like you who encourage it.
When I worked in the Middle East in the 70s as an agent/importer for British construction materials I had a big office, loads of staff and a fancy job title - but still I was considered a "guest worker" and required a "sponsor" to be there. My sponsor happened to be a royal sheikh and as per the law I had to hand my passport to him on arrival and he held on to it as the law made him responsible for my conduct - and he could put me on a plane at any time he fancied.

A harsh programme but it alleviated all the fears of the population (there were 7 times more guest workers than indigenous people) and we guest workers had no problem integrating although Europeans and Americans tended to live together in compounds in the same way southeast Asian and Afro Caribbean communities tend to group together in this country.

A more humane version of the guest worker system could easily work for us,

I'm suggesting we change the law not break it.

And rather than "force them" to e.g. pick crops, we give them a choice - work and pay taxes or don't come in - it's their choice as it is in many countries.

If they get sick, they'll have private health insurance.

And as regards looking after our own poor, surely the best way to do that is to support the economy and keep prices down - which a guest worker scheme would help do.

810How is the Tory government doing? - Page 41 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Thu Apr 07 2022, 11:33

Whitesince63


El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

wanderlust wrote:
When I worked in the Middle East in the 70s as an agent/importer for British construction materials I had a big office, loads of staff and a fancy job title - but still I was considered a "guest worker" and required a "sponsor" to be there. My sponsor happened to be a royal sheikh and as per the law I had to hand my passport to him on arrival and he held on to it as the law made him responsible for my conduct - and he could put me on a plane at any time he fancied.

A harsh programme but it alleviated all the fears of the population (there were 7 times more guest workers than indigenous people) and we guest workers had no problem integrating although Europeans and Americans tended to live together in compounds in the same way southeast Asian and Afro Caribbean communities tend to group together in this country.

A more humane version of the guest worker system could easily work for us,

I'm suggesting we change the law not break it.

And rather than "force them" to e.g. pick crops, we give them a choice - work and pay taxes or don't come in - it's their choice as it is in many countries.

If they get sick, they'll have private health insurance.

And as regards looking after our own poor, surely the best way to do that is to support the economy and keep prices down - which a guest worker scheme would help do.

I don’t in essence disagree with any of that Lusty, it could be an answer but sadly I just don’t see it being feasible for the UK. With respect, your own experience includes yourself being a genuine, well educated and skilled employee who’s intention and selection was always to do a job and return home. The immigrants situation is totally different. For a start they don’t have a passport or any other documentation. We don’t know where they’re from or what skills or education they might have. Also, if things don’t work out we can’t “send them back”. That’s part of the problem surely, so we’re stuck with them. We can’t even expel criminals or Taliban torturers due to the ECHR hence my point about breaking the law. I would though agree with you about changing that one and coming out of the ECHR altogether, though I suspect you wouldn’t.

There isn’t an easy solution to this I’m afraid and just weakening the rules to allow these people in, isn’t I’m afraid as positive or simple as the picture you paint. If we do change laws to make things easier do you seriously think that will reduce the flow because I can only see it encouraging even more and making the problem worse. We are a small island, we have serious problems at the moment for those already here, let alone what’s going on in Ukraine and we just can’t keep taking the millions arriving here from countries in the world suffering problems. We’ve already recently taken people from Afghanistan, Ukraine, Hong Kong, African countries and Middle Eastern countries, just how many do you think we can afford to take? There has to be a limit and despite your dislike of the Tory’s Lusty, even you must see that?

811How is the Tory government doing? - Page 41 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Thu Apr 07 2022, 12:06

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Whitesince63 wrote:

I don’t in essence disagree with any of that Lusty, it could be an answer but sadly I just don’t see it being feasible for the UK. With respect, your own experience includes yourself being a genuine, well educated and skilled employee who’s intention and selection was always to do a job and return home. The immigrants situation is totally different. For a start they don’t have a passport or any other documentation. We don’t know where they’re from or what skills or education they might have. Also, if things don’t work out we can’t “send them back”. That’s part of the problem surely, so we’re stuck with them. We can’t even expel criminals or Taliban torturers due to the ECHR hence my point about breaking the law. I would though agree with you about changing that one and coming out of the ECHR altogether, though I suspect you wouldn’t.

There isn’t an easy solution to this I’m afraid and just weakening the rules to allow these people in, isn’t I’m afraid as positive or simple as the picture you paint. If we do change laws to make things easier do you seriously think that will reduce the flow because I can only see it encouraging even more and making the problem worse. We are a small island, we have serious problems at the moment for those already here, let alone what’s going on in Ukraine and we just can’t keep taking the millions arriving here from countries in the world suffering problems. We’ve already recently taken people from Afghanistan, Ukraine, Hong Kong, African countries and Middle Eastern countries, just how many do you think we can afford to take? There has to be a limit and despite your dislike of the Tory’s Lusty, even you must see that?
I have to disagree mate. The Tories are claiming almost full employment - and yet we are still short of half a million workers.
They've had years to backfill the jobs - and bear in mind they promised that they would do that with British workers - but they've failed miserably.
And now our industries are threatened and we can't produce enough of our own food - something else they promised they'd support but haven't so we are now even more reliant on imports than we ever were.
And those imports are now even more expensive because of Brexit.

To me it seems obvious - there is a shortage of workers and there are workers that want to come here - so why spend fortunes on keeping them out?

As regards security, why is it that this country has a problem when others don't?

We have facial recognition software, access to records across the globe, biometric ID, the highest concentration of security cameras on the planet...all you need to add to that is to change the law re status and entry requirements (as described earlier)

If you are really paranoid, introduce a sponsor system that makes employers responsible or even have a "parole" type system where guest workers have to check in every week. Fit them with a GPS chip if you really want to.

Point is the hype about terrorists infiltrating our country on the back of refugees is just bullshit hype that was central to the Leave campaign's project fear because we have the means to monitor everyone, all the time.

812How is the Tory government doing? - Page 41 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Thu Apr 07 2022, 17:35

Whitesince63


El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

For goodness sake Lusty, can’t you leave Brexit out of one response? You really are totally obsessed with it and I’d be seriously worried if I were you. Again you’re simplifying a very serious issue. We aren’t the only country suffering problems from immigration. Germany, France, Sweden, in fact most Western governments are concerned at the increase in race related problems since the influx of Middle Eastern immigrants. Our security services are already up to their eyes in tracking those here now, every week terrorist plots are uncovered and dealt with without getting into the news. You’re either oblivious to it or intentionally ignoring it. The FACT is that whether it’s a small percentage or not, the bigger the number of immigrants the bigger the threat. YOUR government, like them or not, are intent on securing our safety from the threats these people quite definitely present, so for once in your life, accept that, give them some credit and hope that neither you or your family ever suffer the consequences of a terrorist attack. That’s not being dramatic just real.

813How is the Tory government doing? - Page 41 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Thu Apr 07 2022, 18:51

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Whitesince63 wrote:For goodness sake Lusty, can’t you leave Brexit out of one response? You really are totally obsessed with it and I’d be seriously worried if I were you. Again you’re simplifying a very serious issue. We aren’t the only country suffering problems from immigration. Germany, France, Sweden, in fact most Western governments are concerned at the increase in race related problems since the influx of Middle Eastern immigrants. Our security services are already up to their eyes in tracking those here now, every week terrorist plots are uncovered and dealt with without getting into the news. You’re either oblivious to it or intentionally ignoring it. The FACT is that whether it’s a small percentage or not, the bigger the number of immigrants the bigger the threat. YOUR government, like them or not, are intent on securing our safety from the threats these people quite definitely present, so for once in your life, accept that, give them some credit and hope that neither you or your family ever suffer the consequences of a terrorist attack. That’s not being dramatic just real.
The FACT White, is that we now have to pay more for imports so why are you so touchy about mentioning the cause? Especially when I'm proposing a sensible solution that would reduce our dependency on imports?

Another FACT is that terrorist related incidents in the UK are 99% carried out by Britons living in the UK - not immigrants.
Your argument is that our security services are already overwhelmed? If there is any correlation between immigrants and terror attacks - and there's absolutely no evidence that there is - then that would be due to an immigration policy that doesn't do what I am suggesting wouldn't it?

814How is the Tory government doing? - Page 41 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Thu Apr 07 2022, 18:59

Whitesince63


El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

I give up Lusty, just have it your own way, I’m done with you.

815How is the Tory government doing? - Page 41 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Thu Apr 07 2022, 21:29

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Whitesince63 wrote:I give up Lusty, just have it your own way, I’m done with you.

I think you were the last one mate, the rest of us gave up on him a long time ago!

I'm not being nasty but his behaviour over a long period of time on here strongly suggests he has some sort of obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD) to which I linked to the NHS web page of, the other day.

He clearly is in denial of it and presumably believes his behaviour is normal.

It's not.

Maybe it is all a big act he puts on for here - but that's not normal behaviour either.

I can only assume he behaves in real life as he does on here and if so I imagine people react to him the same way as we do, which is not to engage with him on those topics he's most got a bee in his bonnet about.  If so, then that would explain why he needs to obsessively post about Brexit and his hatred of all things Tory on here instead.

I've not the slightest doubt he will continue to post endlessly on here about these things even if no one ever bothers to respond to him again.  The thing is he doesn't want a debate, he wants to pour out his anger and hatred.  He doesn't want to listen and reason, he wants to spew his bile and speak his hatred.

Long ago I felt sorry for him but that's evaporated away due to his lies and abusive behaviour to me.

He needs to get help but I assume he thinks we are the ones who are stupid and idiots and only he can see what is right and how it is our fault for Brexit happening and the Conservative Party keep winning the General Elections.

God help those who know him in real life - I'd certainly be switching off my hearing aid every time I saw him (if only I had one!).

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if he even ranted about Brexit and the Tory Party in this church gathering he told us he pontificated to the other day.

How is the Tory government doing? - Page 41 71rccJcM6UL

816How is the Tory government doing? - Page 41 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Fri Apr 08 2022, 01:51

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Damn those facts Smile

817How is the Tory government doing? - Page 41 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Fri Apr 08 2022, 10:38

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Whitesince63 wrote:I give up Lusty, just have it your own way, I’m done with you.
Really disappointed in you White. I thought you were able to have a sensible grown up discussion without resorting to the kind of low mudslinging and attempted character assassination that Sluffy uses when he hears something he doesn't like but hasn't got an answer. Whenever I ask a question or state a fact that is difficult, you both claim anything I say is because "I hate the Tories" or "I hate Brexit" which is true to some extent but is in no way any sort of answer to the questions I ask in the spirit of having a grown up conversation on here for a change.
It's pathetic.
You said my proposal was unworkable - 3 times I asked you to explain why and three times I got diatribe but no answer - and then you threw your toys out of the pram.
So is it that you have no answer or is it that you are too ashamed to give the real reason for your position on immigration and the economy?
Sadly, I'm beginning to suspect it's the latter.

818How is the Tory government doing? - Page 41 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Sat Apr 09 2022, 10:35

Whitesince63


El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

Even this response illustrates your complete reluctance to accept an alternative argument. It’s as if you can’t possibly be wrong and whenever somebody posts a counter to you, you just have to go off at a tangent with yet another condemnation. I’ve tried numerous times to answer your questions and give reasons for my position but you totally ignore and reject them and carry on telling me you’re right. Look back over discussions both on here and on Brexit. Even where I’ve actually agreed with you on certain aspects, you overlook it and carry on with your rant. I know you and Sluffy have a long standing problem with each other, which I’ve actually tried to avoid but I really do think that you need to accept that you have a problem accepting that maybe your view is wrong. 

You make many very good points and I totally respect your right to make them but your view is exactly that, your view. Others have different views but you never accept they may be right and always insist it’s yours that are, endlessly posting to prove it. There’s just no point entering into dialogue with you Lusty if you’re only ever going to believe your view is the right one. On Brexit the public voted for it 3 times, once in the referendum, then in the Euro elections and finally in the 2019 election yet you still can’t bring yourself to accept you are the wrong one. If a referendum was held again tomorrow to rejoin, it would massively fail because we’ve now seen even more clearly what a Franco/German run mess the EU is. If there were a general election next month, despite all the issues, the Tories would still walk it. You’re an excellent poster Lusty but you just need to chill out a bit and accept that you might just not always be right. ☺

819How is the Tory government doing? - Page 41 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Sat Apr 09 2022, 11:32

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Whitesince63 wrote:Even this response illustrates your complete reluctance to accept an alternative argument. It’s as if you can’t possibly be wrong and whenever somebody posts a counter to you, you just have to go off at a tangent with yet another condemnation. I’ve tried numerous times to answer your questions and give reasons for my position but you totally ignore and reject them and carry on telling me you’re right. Look back over discussions both on here and on Brexit. Even where I’ve actually agreed with you on certain aspects, you overlook it and carry on with your rant. I know you and Sluffy have a long standing problem with each other, which I’ve actually tried to avoid but I really do think that you need to accept that you have a problem accepting that maybe your view is wrong. 

You make many very good points and I totally respect your right to make them but your view is exactly that, your view. Others have different views but you never accept they may be right and always insist it’s yours that are, endlessly posting to prove it. There’s just no point entering into dialogue with you Lusty if you’re only ever going to believe your view is the right one. On Brexit the public voted for it 3 times, once in the referendum, then in the Euro elections and finally in the 2019 election yet you still can’t bring yourself to accept you are the wrong one. If a referendum was held again tomorrow to rejoin, it would massively fail because we’ve now seen even more clearly what a Franco/German run mess the EU is. If there were a general election next month, despite all the issues, the Tories would still walk it. You’re an excellent poster Lusty but you just need to chill out a bit and accept that you might just not always be right. ☺
As you know full well. I have completely accepted that we have left the EU and do not advocate rejoining at this point in time - yet when I posted an article about a realistic third alternative earlier in this very thread you still go back to the same mantra i.e. claim my opinion is warped as an excuse not to discuss the points I make or answer my questions. If you can just get past that we might be able to have a sensible discussion.

Meanwhile, the kerfuffle about Sunak's American green card and his wife's non-dom status - all perfectly legal ways of dodging UK taxes - is raising all sorts of discussion but there are three key takeaways for me:
British law is once again wrong. If people benefit from our country, whether it's through property sales, trade or whatever, they should pay tax here.
Secondly, the numbers are mind boggling. If Mrs Sunak dies, Rishi will avoid paying £280 million inheritance tax. That's enough for a hospital and almost 3 times the military aid Boris is giving to Ukraine FFS.
Finally, people talk about the "optics" being the only issue. Isn't there a moral issue here? Sunak owns mansion property in the States and has told the Americans that he wants to retire there (for tax purposes)
If he had any moral fibre he should surely declare himself unfit to be the Chancellor of OUR Exchequer as there is a clear conflict of interest.

Perhaps there should be a "fit and proper persons" test for Ministers?

820How is the Tory government doing? - Page 41 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Sat Apr 09 2022, 12:20

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

Whitesince63 wrote:Even this response illustrates your complete reluctance to accept an alternative argument. It’s as if you can’t possibly be wrong and whenever somebody posts a counter to you, you just have to go off at a tangent with yet another condemnation. I’ve tried numerous times to answer your questions and give reasons for my position but you totally ignore and reject them and carry on telling me you’re right. Look back over discussions both on here and on Brexit. Even where I’ve actually agreed with you on certain aspects, you overlook it and carry on with your rant. I know you and Sluffy have a long standing problem with each other, which I’ve actually tried to avoid but I really do think that you need to accept that you have a problem accepting that maybe your view is wrong. 

You make many very good points and I totally respect your right to make them but your view is exactly that, your view. Others have different views but you never accept they may be right and always insist it’s yours that are, endlessly posting to prove it. There’s just no point entering into dialogue with you Lusty if you’re only ever going to believe your view is the right one. On Brexit the public voted for it 3 times, once in the referendum, then in the Euro elections and finally in the 2019 election yet you still can’t bring yourself to accept you are the wrong one. If a referendum was held again tomorrow to rejoin, it would massively fail because we’ve now seen even more clearly what a Franco/German run mess the EU is. If there were a general election next month, despite all the issues, the Tories would still walk it. You’re an excellent poster Lusty but you just need to chill out a bit and accept that you might just not always be right. ☺

Good post 63, it is what I've stated on here numerous times over several years, namely that Wanderlust can never be seen to be wrong.

He's lied, abused and all manner of other things simply to avoid putting his hand up and admit he got something wrong.

We are on the internet, it simple doesn't matter if you've got something wrong, it doesn't amount to anything, nobody knows who you are, you aren't going to be sacked from your job, everybody makes mistakes, etc, so why lie, why the need to be abusive???

Sadly there have been a few on here who have believed Wanderlust's lies and believe Wanderlust to be a good bloke and when I've posted to correct what he's been saying (often linking to the facts of the matter) he's dug in, he still would not have it and his 'mates' on here joined in to support him and make me out to be the big problem who was ruining the site???

He's not going to change but at least now others see him for what he is.

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