How is the Tory Government Doing?

As you say Sluffy it’s a free world, I wasn’t having a hissy fit and despite all the wallpaper posts you haven’t actually proved anything. I have a different view than you do and if you’re seriously trying to suggest that the likes of the IMF and other similar institutions get their forecasts right then I’m hugely relieved that I don’t read most of what you post. You believe what you want, keep trusting these media groups and institutions if you like but leave me to make my own mind up. It seems like you’re missing Lusty that much that you have to find another poster to battle with and if that makes you happy then so be it. This forum is for opinions. I totally accept yours and take them for what they are and to be fair on some subjects I’ve learned from you and many times agreed with you but I suspect on much of this thread we’ll always be in different corners and that’s just the way it is.

Whitesince63 wrote:As you say Sluffy it’s a free world, I wasn’t having a hissy fit and despite all the wallpaper posts you haven’t actually proved anything. I have a different view than you do and if you’re seriously trying to suggest that the likes of the IMF and other similar institutions get their forecasts right then I’m hugely relieved that I don’t read most of what you post. You believe what you want, keep trusting these media groups and institutions if you like but leave me to make my own mind up. It seems like you’re missing Lusty that much that you have to find another poster to battle with and if that makes you happy then so be it. This forum is for opinions. I totally accept yours and take them for what they are and to be fair on some subjects I’ve learned from you and many times agreed with you but I suspect on much of this thread we’ll always be in different corners and that’s just the way it is.

Not much point having a sensible debate if you can't be bothered to 'read much of what I post' - is there?

Fwiw I read everything you post.

You seem to be in denial about anything that challenges your fixed opinions.

I'm not here to be the spokesperson for the IMF but they are basically the world's last resort banker - did you even know that every country in the world (apart from just seven) are members of it and fund it?

The list is here -
https://www.imf.org/external/np/sec/memdir/memdate.htm

The seven who are not are - Cuba, North Korea, Monaco, Taiwan, Vatican City, East Timor and Liechtenstein.

So if the world believes the IMF knows what it is doing (the members are the one who funds it) then that puts you in with the minnows and nutjob countries such as North Korea, Cuba and East Timor.

Anyway did you read the article I specifically posted just for you, from the New York Times?

Or are you in denial about that also?


As for missing Wanderlust, yes I am!

I do enjoy a good laugh and he's given me absolutely loads in the past!

Sluffy, you’re misunderstanding my views on the IMF and other such organisations. They make forecasts, that’s what they’re supposed to do but it’s like other organisations who make “expert” forecasts, they almost always get them wrong. You can add the Covid projections and also arguably the most ridiculous of all, the net zero forecasts, not one of which has ever come to fruition. Garbage in garbage out and since the vast majority of scientists use the same information and statistics it’s hardly surprising is it? I don’t read all of your posts because frankly they’re too long and in most cases I read a few lines then realise that it’s the same garbage I’ve read before written by the same bunch of “experts” as I’ve seen a million times. I just think that the West has a major problem with both governments and their minions brainwashing a very naive population into believing their tripe. 

Thankfully it appears that many people are now waking up to this, as in Holland with the farmers, France with the gilet jaundes and even over here lately. We’ve been lied to, deceived and constantly misled. Look at the proliferation of ULEZ schemes, LTN’s, 15 minute cities and Clean air zones for which councils and authorities are just being allowed to rob the public without one single shred of proven evidence that what they state are true. We are being forced to abandon proven, economical and efficient technology like gas boilers and ICE vehicles in favour of bloody heat pumps and EV’s despite the fact that the majority don’t want them. We’re all entitled to our opinions Sluffy and to express them. On many topics we disagree and if you post me actual facts from fully researched and debated points I’m very open to persuasion but I’m just so totally disgusted with what’s coming out that I put two fingers up to it. Until governments get back to representing the people who vote for them with policies that they believe in the country is doomed. I believe at the next election the percentage votes for the main parties will be the lowest in living memory because none of them deserve to represent us.

I reckon there's an epic War & Peace reply incoming.....

Let's get back on topic. How is the Tory government doing?

Natasha Whittam wrote:I reckon there's an epic War & Peace reply incoming.....

Yes indeed.




I know I'm wasting my breath on you but here goes anyway.

Politics is about power.

At its simplest it has just two rules, the first is to grab power by any means, the second is to hold on to it by any means.

This applies to all political parties, Labour as well as Tory in the UK case.

Before we go too deep we need to understand what Parliament is - which at its simplest is the regulator of the country by creating and repealing the laws that rule us.

What do you need to grab power, well you need a plan and you need money to get your plan out there to the voters.

In the beginning it was the King that was all powerful but he depended on his barons to stay in power.  Over time the Barons wanted a bit of their own power and that's how we got Magna Carta and the beginning of a people's parliament.

The barons depended on their serfs to do all their work and earn them their wealth and eventually over the centuries the workers fought and gained the right to vote and social reforms started to happen.

So in basic terms we have two core parties, the Tories who represent the wealthy and want reduced taxation and less workers rights because it costs them money, and Labour who wanted the opposite - higher tax to fund more social improvements and more workers rights.

Ok you know all this but I think it is important to get into your mind that not everyone wants what you do - in fact in numbers terms there are far more people who should see Labour more beneficial to them in terms of making life better for themselves as they are the nations general working population, than the Tory aims.

So why do the Tory Party generally win elections then?

More than anything else it is through perception.

This is a quote from Dominic Rabb -

A few years back, he told the audience, he had been on a beach in Brazil. He’d had a couple of drinks, and had gone in to the sea to mull over an idea: that New Labour had “eroded liberty” in Britain and created a “rights culture” that had fostered a nation of idlers. Lost in thought, the tide had dragged him far from his starting point, and back on the beach, he had trouble locating his family among all the “scantily clad Brazilians”. On stage, he thanked the IEA for helping him develop this idea, which became the starting point for the book Britannia Unchained, an anti-statist tract, co-written with other MPs who would go on to join Johnson’s new cabinet – Patel; Elizabeth Truss, now trade secretary; Kwasi Kwarteng, business minister; and Chris Skidmore, then health minister.

...the key words being 'rights culture' and 'nation of idlers'.

For balance I guess it is fair to say the right likes to paint the Tory party as corrupt, sleazy and full of cronyism.

There is obviously truth in the views from both sides - but is it fair to label everyone who votes Labour being entitled and non-working and everyone voting Tory, sleazy and corrupt - of course not.

So how have we managed to convince so many people on the extremes, that this is the case?

The answer is through propaganda - manipulation of what people read, hear, see, view on social media, and talk about within self reinforcing networks, etc.

That's where the money I mentioned above comes in.

Big corporations (think Republicans in America, Tory in the UK) fund thinktanks and pressure groups who in turn manipulate the thoughts and views of people like yourself.

The unions do it too (but they don't have the same sort of money) and of course people like TROY are equally brainwashed to be anti-Tory as you are anti-Labour.

Brainwashed is perhaps a too strong a word to use, probably best to say picking up on people's prejudices and amplifying them to a degree that all they see is bad in everything that doesn't conform with their views.

Obviously the Tory Party has been around for ages and no doubt you've been a member for ages, so why have even you noticed that it seems to have gone so shit in recent years?

Well that is because the party has been hi-jacked by radicals (left-wing Libertarians) in the same was that Militant tried to take over the Labour Party in the Kinnock years and that group whose name I can't bring to mind that was behind Corbyn.

This might give you an insight into what I'm talking about...

For a small but vocal band of right-wing libertarians, Liz Truss’ appointment as U.K. prime minister on September 6 seemed the triumphant end point of an epic and improbable march that led them from the fringes of British politics to Whitehall’s grandest corridors of power.

In the course of just over a decade, a group of little-known politicians, fringe think tanks and outspoken media figures had helped drag the Tory Party, and the nation it led, from David Cameron’s vision of so-called compassionate Conservatism — hugging huskies and all — to a Brexit-backing, free-market embracing, low-tax juggernaut.

It took them four Tory prime ministers, four general elections and an era-defining referendum to do it — but with Truss in charge, they were finally living their dream. The country was to be remade in their image.


In truth your Tory values are still the same but in the last 10 years or so the party leaders ethos had changes without you being aware it had!

I guess many still don't (I imagine you will still be in denial after reading my post) but that is what happened.

With the change in Tory Cabinet level ethos - the lying, the rule breaking, the bullying, the bonkers ideological driven financial mini- budget, it has conflicted your implicit support of the Tory party with their crass behaviour and view that they are above the law.

Fair play at least for seeing something wasn't right.

Going back to my opening paragraphs I mention that you needed a 'plan'

So what was it - assuming now that Boris, Rabb, Deloris, etc have all now left the stage, that things will get back to something like normal - well it basically was to do away with Parliament - to scrap state intervention in any form and let the rich do what they want and get richer.

You can see it in action in Russia and China, it is what Trump and the Republicans want in America and that was the same aim here too.

Below are two long articles that explain this - the first is how the 'brainwashing' works...

How the right’s radical thinktanks reshaped the Conservative party

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/29/rightwing-thinktank-conservative-boris-johnson-brexit-atlas-network

...and the second is how the plan nearly did work -

The Brexit cult that blew up Britain

https://www.politico.eu/article/conservative-libertarian-brexit-cult-wont-be-dead-for-long-liz-truss/


And yes they are articles in 'lefty' publications but do you really believe they would ever see the light in a right wing paper...

You really should read them both, rather than discard everything out of hand that doesn't fit in with your preconceived views on the world - that have been fed to you by the 'Thinktanks' that gave you the last ten years of Tory rule that you yourself say has been shit!

I know you won't though as you are that type.

What have you got to lose though.

Go on I dare you - it just might open your eyes to something that up to now you've not even seen...

Sluffy, I’m glad you know what “type” I am even though we’ve never met. Think tanks aren’t just held on the right and I don’t get sucked into the nonsense most of them propose. All politicians hold meetings and discuss positions, why wouldn’t they? They form groups of like minded individuals and that’s all your long and laborious Granuad piece illustrates. I dare say someone from the Express or Mail could do the same of the left if they felt it was worth it but clearly it isn’t so they haven’t. The problem is that most people really aren’t interested in politics and will believe what they hear wherever it comes from. Others like myself who do have an interest make my own mind up and act accordingly. 

I don’t have any qualms about voting Labour or anything else if I believe that they will deliver the policies I want to see delivered. I hoped as a long-standing Tory member and voter that I could influence what happens but sadly with absolutely no difference between the main parties on key issues it’s impossible under the firstbpast the post system to change anything which is why I believe many people will just give up and not vote at all. It’s equally pointless voting for any of the new parties like Reform because that would just be a waste so it looks like I’m homeless unless there’s a damascene conversion within the Tory party before the vote. Still at least I forced myself to read your full post plus links which just proved how right I’d been before not to!! Good try Sluffy but I’m afraid I’ve read it all and heard it all before and it’s just a lot of hot air.

Exactly as I said...

Sluffy wrote:I know I'm wasting my breath...

...and fwiw, I said this to manipulate you in to reading the links...

Sluffy wrote:I know you won't though as you are that type.

...seemed it worked too!

You've demonstrated many times on here you have a closed mind and fixed views and not opened to listening to anything that challenges your preconceived position - but I thought it was worth a try - at least IF you did genuinely read them completely (I still doubt you did) then at least you now have some idea of 'things in the background' that you hadn't known about before and just maybe you will be intrigued enough to find out more.

I would personally because I like knowing the truth.

Finally 'Damascene' good word, I've never heard of it before although I was aware of 'the road to Damascus' and it's meaning.

Fwiw, as a child I once won a prize at school for a picture I drew of Saul on his way to Damascus - strange but absolutely true story.

Sluffy wrote:Exactly as I said...



...and fwiw, I said this to manipulate you in to reading the links...



...seemed it worked too!

You've demonstrated many times on here you have a closed mind and fixed views and not opened to listening to anything that challenges your preconceived position - but I thought it was worth a try - at least IF you did genuinely read them completely (I still doubt you did) then at least you now have some idea of 'things in the background' that you hadn't known about before and just maybe you will be intrigued enough to find out more.

I would personally because I like knowing the truth.

Finally 'Damascene' good word, I've never heard of it before although I was aware of 'the road to Damascus' and it's meaning.

Fwiw, as a child I once won a prize at school for a picture I drew of Saul on his way to Damascus - strange but absolutely true story.

Well Sluffy I can assure you that painful as it was I did make myself read all of your post and both links. Sadly I learned nothing from either of them because I’ve heard it all before, one sided and exactly what I expected but I did at least give it a chance. As you can imagine I take almost everything the Granuad writes as bollocks though I must admit the article written by Mr Bean regarding EV’s I completely agreed with and in fact I was surprised to see such a sensible piece in the rag!

I don’t though have a closed mind and am open to any information if it’s genuine and proved factual and without wishing to offend consider it’s yourself who has a closed mind and the fact that you continue to go to so much length to counter anything I say proves it. Like I said right at the start, you have your beliefs and you obviously believe them and likewise myself in what I believe. It’s good to post your thoughts, it’s what the site and this threads about and if you post something I don’t know and feel a need to examine further for myself then I will but I don’t need links to what you believe in an effort to convince me of it. Unlike Saul therefore I’m also unlikely to have a damascene conversion to your way of thinkng either Sluffy?

I'm not here looking for converts and I believe in nothing other than facts.

If you are happy with your bunker mentality, then that's up to you.

When you are presented with facts that don't fit in with your 'belief's' then you deny them.  You won't have it that there is global warming caused by us humans, you don't believe children can catch and pass on Covid (despite that there are two posters on here who have caught it from their children), and you are in denial that 'trickle down' economic policy (the thing Truss did with her budget), has been tried before and simply hasn't work.

I thought this was funny...

In New Zealand, Damien O'Connor, an MP from the Labour Party, called trickle-down economics "the rich pissing on the poor" in the Labour Party campaign launch video for the 2011 general election.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trickle-down_economics#:~:text=Trickle%2Ddown%20economics%20is%20a,critics%20of%20supply%2Dside%20economics.

You say you don't have a closed mind do you...

I take almost everything the Granuad writes as bollocks...

...I was surprised to see such a sensible piece in the rag!


...you clearly have one in respect of the Guardian!!!

So we can immediately disprove your claim about that then!


Look mate, all I was trying to do was to open up your eyes to where the ideology you follow comes from and what its aims are.  You don't strike me a natural Libertarian although you certainly seem to parrot its ideology without understanding it.

However as the saying goes, there are none so blind as those who will not see...

As for me I don't support any political party and I don't vote because I've seen from the inside what politics is all about and that whatever rosette they wear, they all are as bad as each other.

Only now, the right wing extremists in America (Trump) and under Boris/Truss in the UK have actually got their hands on power - and that is a very scary thing for real democracy as we know it.

You’re a real tonic in the morning Sluffy, your posts always put a big smile on my face. Give me some FACTS that humans cause global warming and I don’t mean from the globalist mob in whose interest it is to perpetuate the idea and show me one, just one forecast that has actually come true. I can show you lots of projections of doom from the last 30 years or so, none of which have occurred. One minute to midnight? Bollocks. As for Covid, I said one PROVEN case, anywhere in the world of a child transmitting Covid to an adult. Sadly your friends have absolutely no ides where they may have caught Covid, that’s just a ridiculous response. Admit it Sluffy, you’ve been sucked in just like the majority who don’t have a mind of their own and are easily convinced. 

On Covid we were lied to, misled and forced into causing massive and totally unnecessary damage to this country both financially and medically and now people are suffering the consequences. They’re also suffering increasing poverty and hardship due to the stupid and damaging costs of trying to move to a net zero target that has never been explained  or subject to a cost benefit analysis of any kind. I agree that all the current parliamentarians are as bad as each other and you can also throw in the MSM with that as well who have been fully compliant in the deceptions. The West is fucked if you’ll excuse the language because of people like you who just swallow the crap you’re fed. You’re getting just like your woke brethren Sluffy in that anyone who has a different point of view must have a bunker mentality or some other aversion to your way of thinking. As you say there are none so blind as those who will not see. Open your eyes and your mind and you just might. By the way, do your best to find me FACTS about my two questions not hearsay.

I tell you what W63, I'll find you facts when you provide the facts that humans haven't caused the current global warming, and facts that children haven't caught and passed on Covid.

If you are so certain about these things then surely you can provide it easily - or is it simply just your blind faith that you have from those who've you've read from social media?

And you also reckon I'm woke do you?

You must have then forgotten how strongly I was against the BLM protests, the throwing of statutes into the river, people taking the knee, the Trans rights and gay programmes thrust in our faces every day, and just about everything else they get up to.

If I'm woke, then I must be the worst woke supporter in the world!

As for the main stream media - do you not read the papers or watch the news - serious question?

If your answer is no, then you must get your news and info from social media - like Wanderlust does!!!

God help you if you do (and it probably explains a lot!).

If you do then you must read the papers and news channels (GB News?) that are slanted to feed your political leanings - so are you saying these medias are telling the truth to you, whilst all the others are lying???

Fwiw I read all the papers, or at least all the ones without a paywall - not that I'm mean or anything, it's just that I won't pay to read any particular publication simply because I'm non political in my views and don't want to pay to read basically political propaganda from them, shoved in my face in the first place.

I get my news from the BBC.  It may not be perfect but I trust it's reporting and integrity over anyone else.

And yes the saying still stands (none so blind...) - because you have bunkered down with the belief that you are right simply because you haven't accepted any facts that disprove your beliefs yet can't provide any facts that support them!

Isn't that somewhat hypocritical of you, or is it your your blind faith being that what you like to believe (without proof) is right and absolutely everything else is wrong?

Go on, show to me with the facts that your views can be proven - I'm more than happy to accept them and change my stance accordingly.

I'm confident you can't do it though because I've tried many times to find such facts myself and there are none other than the likes of 'social media' scientists who look to monitories their 'opinions' and get rich from  fossil fuel companies to push their agenda or mugs who read and subscribe to such tripe simply because they want to believe it is true.

And don't try to wriggle out of it by saying you asked me first because I can show you countless renowned and authoritative world bodies proving the rise in global warming coinciding with human activity, that you simply refuse to accept.

You are in denial.

I on the other hand still have on open mind and always will have as I follow the facts and not the spin.

If you’re just joining us, here’s what we've learned from the Privileges Committee report so far:

- Boris Johnson committed "repeated contempts" of Parliament
- It recommended a 90-day suspension which would have paved the way for a by-election
- Johnson committed further contempts in undermining the democratic processes of the Commons
- He was "deliberately disingenuous when he tried to reinterpret his statements to the House to avoid their plain meaning and reframe the clear impression he intended to give"
- His resignation statement breached confidentiality requirements by criticising the committee's provisional findings
- MPs considered whether it should have recommended expelling Johnson from the Commons entirely

Report is unflinching, unsparing and devastating for Johnson

Blimey.

This is a report – in breadth and depth – that demolishes Boris Johnson’s character and conduct.

Boris Johnson was prime minister just 40 weeks ago.

Driven from office by his peers, now driven from the Commons too.

Johnson, the committee says, deliberately misled Parliament.

Let’s be blunt: they are saying he lied.

Had he still been an MP, a suggested suspension of 10 days would have been enough to potentially prompt a by election.

They suggested 90 days. 90. Wow.

And that’s not the end of it.

They say he misled the committee, impugned the committee and was “complicit in the campaign of abuse and attempted intimidation of the Committee.”

Full disclosure: clearly I’ve not read all of it yet. I’ve barely started.

But the volume and frequency of Johnson’s anger since he saw it can now be seen by the rest of us in context – it is unflinching, unsparing and devastating for him.

Johnson claims it is “a charade.”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-65876914

Sluffy wrote:I tell you what W63, I'll find you facts when you provide the facts that humans haven't caused the current global warming, and facts that children haven't caught and passed on Covid.

If you are so certain about these things then surely you can provide it easily - or is it simply just your blind faith that you have from those who've you've read from social media?

And you also reckon I'm woke do you?

You must have then forgotten how strongly I was against the BLM protests, the throwing of statutes into the river, people taking the knee, the Trans rights and gay programmes thrust in our faces every day, and just about everything else they get up to.

If I'm woke, then I must be the worst woke supporter in the world!

As for the main stream media - do you not read the papers or watch the news - serious question?

If your answer is no, then you must get your news and info from social media - like Wanderlust does!!!

God help you if you do (and it probably explains a lot!).

If you do then you must read the papers and news channels (GB News?) that are slanted to feed your political leanings - so are you saying these medias are telling the truth to you, whilst all the others are lying???

Fwiw I read all the papers, or at least all the ones without a paywall - not that I'm mean or anything, it's just that I won't pay to read any particular publication simply because I'm non political in my views and don't want to pay to read basically political propaganda from them, shoved in my face in the first place.

I get my news from the BBC.  It may not be perfect but I trust it's reporting and integrity over anyone else.

And yes the saying still stands (none so blind...) - because you have bunkered down with the belief that you are right simply because you haven't accepted any facts that disprove your beliefs yet can't provide any facts that support them!

Isn't that somewhat hypocritical of you, or is it your your blind faith being that what you like to believe (without proof) is right and absolutely everything else is wrong?

Go on, show to me with the facts that your views can be proven - I'm more than happy to accept them and change my stance accordingly.

I'm confident you can't do it though because I've tried many times to find such facts myself and there are none other than the likes of 'social media' scientists who look to monitories their 'opinions' and get rich from  fossil fuel companies to push their agenda or mugs who read and subscribe to such tripe simply because they want to believe it is true.

And don't try to wriggle out of it by saying you asked me first because I can show you countless renowned and authoritative world bodies proving the rise in global warming coinciding with human activity, that you simply refuse to accept.

You are in denial.

I on the other hand still have on open mind and always will have as I follow the facts and not the spin.

Sluffy, the reason you can’t provide any evidence that children can transmit Covid is precisely because there isn’t any. That’s the FACT so unless you can prove the facts wrong it’s over to you.

On Climate change I’ve never doubted it’s happening, it’s happened for millions of years since the planet formed. During that time though it’s a FACT that the world has experienced very hot and very cold periods along with increasing and decreasing levels of greenhouse gases. What I do accept is that current lets of greenhouse gases are historically high and I don’t question the fact that humans must play some part in that but I believe both the effects and the reaction to it to be massively over exaggerated by some scientists. When the media quote this 97% of scientists agree malarkey they forget to include that this was in fact the percentage the one third of scientists questioned in total. It’s this kind of thoroughly misleading and disingenuous claiming that annoys me because they’re attempting to brainwash people and especially our children.

As far as which media I frequent, I listen to all channels but that again is why I disbelieve much of the MSM because their stories are highly selective, as are the voices they choose to listen to. Covid is the most perfect example of this where anybody with a different view to government was not only not reported and physically banned but criticised as nut cases and zealots despite many of them being world leading oncologists and paediatricians. We are now finding that they were right all along and it was in fact Sage who were misleading resulting in the damaged society we are now all suffering.

I don’t do social media because like you I mistrust virtually all of it and I limit myself to discussions on forums like this where I can converse with intelligent individuals like yourself Sluffy and that’s not being patronising, I genuinely mean it. Yes we have many different views but I don’t think I’ve ever inferred that you are other than honest in those and what you genuinely believe and all I would ask is that you act the same way.

Whitesince63 wrote:

Sluffy wrote:I tell you what W63, I'll find you facts when you provide the facts that humans haven't caused the current global warming, and facts that children haven't caught and passed on Covid.

If you are so certain about these things then surely you can provide it easily - or is it simply just your blind faith that you have from those who've you've read from social media?

And you also reckon I'm woke do you?

You must have then forgotten how strongly I was against the BLM protests, the throwing of statutes into the river, people taking the knee, the Trans rights and gay programmes thrust in our faces every day, and just about everything else they get up to.

If I'm woke, then I must be the worst woke supporter in the world!

As for the main stream media - do you not read the papers or watch the news - serious question?

If your answer is no, then you must get your news and info from social media - like Wanderlust does!!!

God help you if you do (and it probably explains a lot!).

If you do then you must read the papers and news channels (GB News?) that are slanted to feed your political leanings - so are you saying these medias are telling the truth to you, whilst all the others are lying???

Fwiw I read all the papers, or at least all the ones without a paywall - not that I'm mean or anything, it's just that I won't pay to read any particular publication simply because I'm non political in my views and don't want to pay to read basically political propaganda from them, shoved in my face in the first place.

I get my news from the BBC.  It may not be perfect but I trust it's reporting and integrity over anyone else.

And yes the saying still stands (none so blind...) - because you have bunkered down with the belief that you are right simply because you haven't accepted any facts that disprove your beliefs yet can't provide any facts that support them!

Isn't that somewhat hypocritical of you, or is it your your blind faith being that what you like to believe (without proof) is right and absolutely everything else is wrong?

Go on, show to me with the facts that your views can be proven - I'm more than happy to accept them and change my stance accordingly.

I'm confident you can't do it though because I've tried many times to find such facts myself and there are none other than the likes of 'social media' scientists who look to monitories their 'opinions' and get rich from  fossil fuel companies to push their agenda or mugs who read and subscribe to such tripe simply because they want to believe it is true.

And don't try to wriggle out of it by saying you asked me first because I can show you countless renowned and authoritative world bodies proving the rise in global warming coinciding with human activity, that you simply refuse to accept.

You are in denial.

I on the other hand still have on open mind and always will have as I follow the facts and not the spin.

Sluffy, the reason you can’t provide any evidence that children can transmit Covid is precisely because there isn’t any. That’s the FACT so unless you can prove the facts wrong it’s over to you.

On Climate change I’ve never doubted it’s happening, it’s happened for millions of years since the planet formed. During that time though it’s a FACT that the world has experienced very hot and very cold periods along with increasing and decreasing levels of greenhouse gases. What I do accept is that current lets of greenhouse gases are historically high and I don’t question the fact that humans must play some part in that but I believe both the effects and the reaction to it to be massively over exaggerated by some scientists. When the media quote this 97% of scientists agree malarkey they forget to include that this was in fact the percentage the one third of scientists questioned in total. It’s this kind of thoroughly misleading and disingenuous claiming that annoys me because they’re attempting to brainwash people and especially our children.

We have already been through this.

Is anyone surprised to hear BoJo is a liar? The man lies so much he has no idea when he's doing it anymore 

I see he's still pleading ignorance as an excuse which sums him up perfectly, how did this man become PM?

This is the problem with him and the other public school Tories, they think they are entitled to be in positions of power just because of their background.

Norpig wrote:I see he's still pleading ignorance as an excuse which sums him up perfectly, how did this man become PM?

This is the problem with him and the other public school Tories, they think they are entitled to be in positions of power just because of their background.

Remind me, Monsieur Pig, what excuse did public school educated,Tony Blair, plead to justify the war in Iraq?

They are All tosser. Period!

karlypants wrote:

We have already been through this.

You were obviously asleep then?