Bolton 2-1 Boro

being in the championship doesn't help.

Most still are under the illusion it's a piss league and we should be "beating teams like [every team]"

I assumed we'd find it easier too, was obviously wrong about the standard.

Yeah, for me too. I knew the Championship was a tough league, but I never expected us to struggle like we have.

Isn't there another thread for Dougie-bashing?
This is the "will we get 3 points on Saturday?" thread - to which I say "Yes we will".

bwfc1874 wrote:

Exactly, he's not even 40 yet, it's only his second season as a manager (I think) and people expect us to win every game.

This isn't about winning games as such, it's about giving yourself the best chance of winning. I can take defeat if Dougie picks the best team.

If Dougie picks the best side and the team loses then that's down to the players, not the manager. It was the players that fucked up at Ipswich & Charlton, not the manager.

The team and tactics at Leicester were stupid, the fact he didn't own up after the match makes me think he's an arrogant tosser.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

bwfc1874 wrote:

Exactly, he's not even 40 yet, it's only his second season as a manager (I think) and people expect us to win every game.

This isn't about winning games as such, it's about giving yourself the best chance of winning. I can take defeat if Dougie picks the best team.

If Dougie picks the best side and the team loses then that's down to the players, not the manager. It was the players that fucked up at Ipswich & Charlton, not the manager.

The team and tactics at Leicester were stupid, the fact he didn't own up after the match makes me think he's an arrogant tosser.

You blamed Duogie after Charlton and Ipswich.

Butterfield was stupid against Leicester, 451 wasn't and once we'd gone behind he changed it to 442 and we got back in the game. We were really unlucky not to get a point, there was no major fuck up that caused it so there's nothing to apologise for.

bwfc1874 wrote:

Butterfield was stupid against Leicester, 451 wasn't and once we'd gone behind he changed it to 442 and we got back in the game. We were really unlucky not to get a point, there was no major fuck up that caused it so there's nothing to apologise for.

You're wrong.

He tried to play defensive and changed personnel to do it. We lost in a "must not lose" game.

At some point you have to make Dougie accountable. It's not like he's on minimum wage doing us a favour.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

bwfc1874 wrote:

Butterfield was stupid against Leicester, 451 wasn't and once we'd gone behind he changed it to 442 and we got back in the game. We were really unlucky not to get a point, there was no major fuck up that caused it so there's nothing to apologise for.

You're wrong.

He tried to play defensive and changed personnel to do it. We lost in a "must not lose" game.

At some point you have to make Dougie accountable. It's not like he's on minimum wage doing us a favour.

I hold him accountable for playing Butterfield, that was a mistake.

We attacked well for large periods of the game I don't think 451 hindered us in any way so I don't think it was a fuck up, in fact I think it's a good thing we now have a manager who puts some thought into each individual game, he felt we needed to go 451 to get something from the match not having spearing may have played a part in that. He changed things when he needed to and we should have got a point, can't get the result every week.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

bwfc1874 wrote:

Exactly, he's not even 40 yet, it's only his second season as a manager (I think) and people expect us to win every game.

This isn't about winning games as such, it's about giving yourself the best chance of winning. I can take defeat if Dougie picks the best team.

If Dougie picks the best side and the team loses then that's down to the players, not the manager. It was the players that fucked up at Ipswich & Charlton, not the manager.

The team and tactics at Leicester were stupid, the fact he didn't own up after the match makes me think he's an arrogant tosser.

Spot on!

What team do you think he'll play then ?

Hipster_Nebula wrote:

He's back.

Hopefully we beat boro then he won't have to come on for at least a week.

What a small mind you have.

You also have my pity.

chipbutty wrote:

Hipster_Nebula wrote:

He's back.

Hopefully we beat boro then he won't have to come on for at least a week.

What a small mind you have.

You also have my pity.

Thanks pal!

Natasha Whittam wrote:

bwfc1874 wrote:

Exactly, he's not even 40 yet, it's only his second season as a manager (I think) and people expect us to win every game.

This isn't about winning games as such, it's about giving yourself the best chance of winning. I can take defeat if Dougie picks the best team.

If Dougie picks the best side and the team loses then that's down to the players, not the manager. It was the players that fucked up at Ipswich & Charlton, not the manager.

The team and tactics at Leicester were stupid, the fact he didn't own up after the match makes me think he's an arrogant tosser.

You make some good points apart from the last one which is a subjective opinion as opposed to a logical conclusion. There are many reasons why Dougie wouldn't state that his selections and/or system were wrong. Whilst it's a possibility that it's because he's an arrogant tosser, there are other more likely PR and management culture reasons including:

• showing the players who came in that he still has faith in them (rightly or wrongly) so that they'll be confident next time they're needed
  
• sending out a positive message to the other clubs we have yet to play
  
• maintaining player confidence in him
  

In reality, the players involved will know that they weren't at their best but at least they'll be able to cling on to the perception of having their manager's trust to motivate themselves to improve.
Not a good scenario by any stretch of the imagination but I imagine Dougie would have balanced looking like a prick v damage limitation before making the statement, so he's not necessarily an arrogant tosser.

wanderlust wrote:

Natasha Whittam wrote:

bwfc1874 wrote:

Exactly, he's not even 40 yet, it's only his second season as a manager (I think) and people expect us to win every game.

This isn't about winning games as such, it's about giving yourself the best chance of winning. I can take defeat if Dougie picks the best team.

If Dougie picks the best side and the team loses then that's down to the players, not the manager. It was the players that fucked up at Ipswich & Charlton, not the manager.

The team and tactics at Leicester were stupid, the fact he didn't own up after the match makes me think he's an arrogant tosser.

You make some good points apart from the last one which is a subjective opinion as opposed to a logical conclusion. There are many reasons why Dougie wouldn't state that his selections and/or system were wrong. Whilst it's a possibility that it's because he's an arrogant tosser, there are other more likely PR and management culture reasons including:

• showing the players who came in that he still has faith in them (rightly or wrongly) so that they'll be confident next time they're needed
  
• sending out a positive message to the other clubs we have yet to play
  
• maintaining player confidence in him
  

In reality, the players involved will know that they weren't at their best but at least they'll be able to cling on to the perception of having their manager's trust to motivate themselves to improve.
Not a good scenario by any stretch of the imagination but I imagine Dougie would have balanced looking like a prick v damage limitation before making the statement, so he's not necessarily an arrogant tosser.

Spot on in the case of picking Butterfield.

My argument is he had nothing to apologise for in playing 451, because of what Natasha says it's about giving yourself the best chance of winning, on another day we could have won that game and most certainly have got a point.

I think we will win 2-1 tomorrow. We will get a result against Cardiff then Blackpool will hold us to a draw and then we finish 7th.

I think we'll need 3 wins in a row as Palace have a game in hand and Forest have a relatively easy run in.
Leicester have Palace, Watford and Forest - tough
Palace have Leicester, Rovers, Millwall and Posh - game in hand might swing it for them even if they lose to Leicester
Brighton have B'Pool, Leeds and Wolves - relatively easy and a 3 point lead plus superior GD - so not catchable IMO
Forest have Barnsley, Millwall and Leicester at home so could pip us to the last spot if we don't win all 3.
Bit of a cliffhanger and hopefully it will still be on after tomorrow.

The Leicester run-in is crucial I think. Depending on how the results go for us, it will be hard to say who we'd want to win out Leicester V Forest, V Palace and V Watford.

I don't think we need three wins to be honest. I think 6 will be enough, although if we can make it easier for ourselves by getting a win at Cardiff, then it will ease some pressure heading into the penultimate game of the season at home to Blackpool.

It makes me laugh that people think we'll get something at Cardiff.

They have the best home record and we have the worst away record.

Mental.

Natasha Whittam wrote:It makes me laugh that people think we'll get something at Cardiff.

They have the best home record and we have the worst away record.

Mental.

Peterborough were bottom of the league and beat Cardiff in ther own backyard.

Leicester were bottom of the form table and we were top, they still beat us.

Cardiff will have won the league and their minds will be elsewhere.

Anything can happen in this league, we will win.

Natasha Whittam wrote:It makes me laugh that people think we'll get something at Cardiff.

They have the best home record and we have the worst away record.

Mental.

Nat, have you ever been confident before a game ?

How mad is this ?

Last game of last season we need a win to stay up.

Last game of this season we need a win to go up.