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How is the Tory government doing?

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Angry Dad
karlypants
wanderlust
okocha
xmiles
wessy
Norpig
sunlight
boltonbonce
finlaymcdanger
Ten Bobsworth
gloswhite
Sluffy
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Hip Priest
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141How is the Tory government doing? - Page 8 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue Oct 13 2020, 17:57

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

T.R.O.Y. wrote:We’ll need a change of government to affect climate change, because it would need to be enforced change given how little time we have now. Ideologically the Tory party just aren’t going to do that.

No one can affect climate change unless the world powers like China, USA and Russia not only take action to do so first but then ensure that the rest of the world do so too - and that is never going to happen irrespective of a Tory. Labour or even a Green Party government in this country.

Brazil demolishing the Amazon rainforest probably does more harm in a single day than what good any government we have could do in a year of wanting to positively halt climate change - we need to gets things in to perspective than just political pot shots at the Conservatives or Labour who happen to be in power at the time.

(I use the analogy as indicative rather than known to be factual just so people can better understand the point I'm trying to make).

142How is the Tory government doing? - Page 8 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue Oct 13 2020, 18:09

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

wanderlust wrote:Let's not kid ourselves - the sole purpose of dropping food standards is to try and salvage a deal with the Yanks.

What would you prefer no deal with the USA, food prices rocket and people can't afford to eat?

People are using foodbanks now remember and unemployment is rocketing all the time with job losses due to coronavirus.

Nobody wanted to be in the position that we are but people need to afford to eat and it's only the same stuff as the American's themselves eat isn't it and they aren't dropping down dead are they through eating it are they?

You've got to face reality the UK is no longer a world power, we can no longer dictate our terms as we have done so for the last couple of century's.

We aren't in a position of strength to bargain/be heard anymore.

I blame that on the people who voted for Brexit - and you, let me remind you - are one of them!!!

143How is the Tory government doing? - Page 8 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue Oct 13 2020, 18:54

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Sluffy wrote:

What would you prefer no deal with the USA, food prices rocket and people can't afford to eat?

People are using foodbanks now remember and unemployment is rocketing all the time with job losses due to coronavirus.

Nobody wanted to be in the position that we are but people need to afford to eat and it's only the same stuff as the American's themselves eat isn't it and they aren't dropping down dead are they through eating it are they?

You've got to face reality the UK is no longer a world power, we can no longer dictate our terms as we have done so for the last couple of century's.

We aren't in a position of strength to bargain/be heard anymore.

I blame that on the people who voted for Brexit - and you, let me remind you - are one of them!!!

I imagine some sort of deal will eventually be struck with the USA despite their legitimate concerns about the Good Friday Agreement, their statements about the UK being a low priority and our concerns about them getting a foothold in the NHS etc. 
But it will be a shit deal compared to the deal that the EU will get given that they are a massive market compared to us and already do five times more bilateral trade with the USA than we do.

What I would prefer is to maintain EU food standards in order to facilitate a no tariff trade deal with the EU so that we can continue to get the low cost fresh quality food that we have enjoyed for many years now.

However this Government seems insistent on throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

144How is the Tory government doing? - Page 8 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue Oct 13 2020, 21:19

Guest


Guest

Sluffy wrote:

No one can affect climate change unless the world powers like China, USA and Russia not only take action to do so first but then ensure that the rest of the world do so too - and that is never going to happen irrespective of a Tory. Labour or even a Green Party government in this country.

Brazil demolishing the Amazon rainforest probably does more harm in a single day than what good any government we have could do in a year of wanting to positively halt climate change - we need to gets things in to perspective than just political pot shots at the Conservatives or Labour who happen to be in power at the time.

(I use the analogy as indicative rather than known to be factual just so people can better understand the point I'm trying to make).

You’re right that the UK alone can’t make a difference, but you lead and affect change from the front not by waiting for others to act first.

I want a government capable of doing this, and I’m afraid they’re not.

145How is the Tory government doing? - Page 8 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue Oct 13 2020, 21:39

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

wanderlust wrote:
Sluffy wrote:

What would you prefer no deal with the USA, food prices rocket and people can't afford to eat?

People are using foodbanks now remember and unemployment is rocketing all the time with job losses due to coronavirus.

Nobody wanted to be in the position that we are but people need to afford to eat and it's only the same stuff as the American's themselves eat isn't it and they aren't dropping down dead are they through eating it are they?

You've got to face reality the UK is no longer a world power, we can no longer dictate our terms as we have done so for the last couple of century's.

We aren't in a position of strength to bargain/be heard anymore.

I blame that on the people who voted for Brexit - and you, let me remind you - are one of them!!!

I imagine some sort of deal will eventually be struck with the USA despite their legitimate concerns about the Good Friday Agreement, their statements about the UK being a low priority and our concerns about them getting a foothold in the NHS etc. 
But it will be a shit deal compared to the deal that the EU will get given that they are a massive market compared to us and already do five times more bilateral trade with the USA than we do.

What I would prefer is to maintain EU food standards in order to facilitate a no tariff trade deal with the EU so that we can continue to get the low cost fresh quality food that we have enjoyed for many years now.

However this Government seems insistent on throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

You might prefer it, I might prefer it, the government probably would prefer it too but as it stands it simply an option, we either do what the EU want - free movement and all that or there isn't a deal - and if we don't want free movement and all that (and you voted for Brexit remember), then we have to trade with others somewhere else such as the USA and if lowering food standards to theirs (which doesn't seem that unreasonable does it - after all they are a world superpower after all and not some third world backwater or other?) then what choice are we left with?

I can't see how having no choice in the matter is viewed by you as throwing the baby out with the bath water.

When you voted for Brexit did you really think the EU would roll over and still give us everything what we had before? Hardly surprising then that they've played hardball with us then and May clearly didn't have no leverage against them did she?

I'm not fan of Boris but at least he called their bluff and if the EU really wants some ties with us (which they should) and us with them (which we should) then he's at least created some doubt in their minds as to us really leaving with no agreement.

Maybe it might work, maybe it doesn't and we crash out but what alternative was there - May's agreement that was rejected THREE times at Parliament.

There wasn't an alternative was there?

And if we crash out we probably eat the same chickens that all of America do, it's not like we are going to be eating poison or something is it?

Do I want to stay in the EU - yes

Is that a possibility - No

Do I want free trade with the EU - yes

Is that a possibility - unless the EU gives way some, no.

Do I want to have lower food safety - no

Do I eat American food when in America - yes

As it made me ill - no

If we crash out of the EU and we have to eat American chickens like they do, would that be a disaster - no I don't think it would and as it stands we might not have and other choice anyway!

Did I vote for Brexit and got us into the situation in the first place - no

Did you...

:whistle:

146How is the Tory government doing? - Page 8 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue Oct 13 2020, 22:10

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

T.R.O.Y. wrote:
Sluffy wrote:

No one can affect climate change unless the world powers like China, USA and Russia not only take action to do so first but then ensure that the rest of the world do so too - and that is never going to happen irrespective of a Tory. Labour or even a Green Party government in this country.

Brazil demolishing the Amazon rainforest probably does more harm in a single day than what good any government we have could do in a year of wanting to positively halt climate change - we need to gets things in to perspective than just political pot shots at the Conservatives or Labour who happen to be in power at the time.

(I use the analogy as indicative rather than known to be factual just so people can better understand the point I'm trying to make).

You’re right that the UK alone can’t make a difference, but you lead and affect change from the front not by waiting for others to act first.

I want a government capable of doing this, and I’m afraid they’re not.

You are right too, everyone does need to do their bit but our bit is negligible in the scale of things.

Christ people can't even be bothered sorting out their recyclables or taking their plastic bag to the super market on their next visit in this country, that's how seriously about 90% of people actually care about the planet.  (I just made that number up btw just to illustrate my point)

Having a Labour, Conservative or Green Party in government isn't going to change their behaviour.  It isn't at the top of their list of things they vote for and  the first rule of politics is to get elected to power, the second to keep in power, so the political party's (the greens apart) will be all about getting their votes first and saving the world about forty-first on their priority list of policies to woo them.

That's how it works and why I can't be bothered with all the political games that are played - they are all as bad as each other to me as even the Green Party, who in theory I would like to support, have some commendable ambitions but totally unattainable plans to achieve them - theory and practice are not always the same thing unfortunately.

Green Party manifesto 2019: 12 key policies explained

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50464641

147How is the Tory government doing? - Page 8 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue Oct 13 2020, 22:17

Guest


Guest

I’m not sure why you’re so certain about this. The environment is a major concern for voters and it is going to increasingly be a vote winner for more and more people - plenty of historic polling data plots that shift in voter concern.

If you think the Tories, Greens and Labour are all equally unconcerned about the environment I can see why you don’t vote. But you’re massively mistaken, it doesn’t take much research on motives and intention to see that, even if you don’t follow politics. Would implore you to take more of an interest so you can use your vote in future.

148How is the Tory government doing? - Page 8 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue Oct 13 2020, 22:38

okocha

okocha
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

The Green Party's manifesto and  aims are admirable and they have the most intelligent, articulate and convincingly honest MP in Parliament, but they don't get the fair media coverage that they should despite Attenborough. The Party's leaders are impressive too.... but Greta is clearly not popular and so much of modern politics depends on likeability.

149How is the Tory government doing? - Page 8 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue Oct 13 2020, 23:28

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

T.R.O.Y. wrote:I’m not sure why you’re so certain about this. The environment is a major concern for voters and it is going to increasingly be a vote winner for more and more people - plenty of historic polling data plots that shift in voter concern.

If you think the Tories, Greens and Labour are all equally unconcerned about the environment I can see why you don’t vote. But you’re massively mistaken, it doesn’t take much research on motives and intention to see that, even if you don’t follow politics. Would implore you to take more of an interest so you can use your vote in future.

Err no I certainly didn't say the Green Party was unconcerned about the Environment, I said that they aren't seen as being electable as the environment may well be a concern to many people but when they vote it isn't at the top of their reason which way the place their 'x' on the ballot paper is it?

Let's just think about it for a moment, in 2019 we had an election between Corbyn and Boris and the people overwhelmingly voted Boris as the least worst option (not because they wanted him - many didn't - but he was better than the alternative in their view (in mine to as it happens) - earlier in 2019 there was an EU election and whilst many people chose to use it as a Brexit referendum confirmation vote as such, the Green Party polled 12.1% of the votes and returned 7 MEP's

European Election 2019: UK results in maps and charts

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48403131

Just seven months later in election contested by the least popular two leaders of the main political parties the country probably has ever had, the Green's vote dropped to just 2.7%.

UK General Election results:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2019/results

You'd think, well I would, that the protest vote would go up for the Green's (and the Lib-Dems the traditional protest vote party) in the GE because plenty didn't want Corbyn OR Boris to win but instead it all but evaporated because when push comes to shove when casting their votes, the environment had less importance than something else at the time, which happened to be 'Get Brexit done' - and let's be honest, by then I believe a majority of people just voted that way because they were so utterly sick of the whole thing!

People are fickle mate, they will vote for what's best for them (or how they perceive it to be) and let someone else worry about saving the planet - they might say different outside the polling station but they certainly don't vote that way in it.

And thank you for your concern about me not voting.  I dare say I was casting my vote before you were ever born and all I can see for it in fifty or so years of putting my 'x' on ballot papers things have got worse in my view, not better, so clearly I'm not adding much to the process then really am I?

The public gets what the public wants I suppose, so I guess it is true that we must also get what we deserve.

When asked we all will say we want to save the world then can't even be arsed to sort our recycling out when we get home!

Actions speak louder than words, always have, always will.

150How is the Tory government doing? - Page 8 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Oct 14 2020, 00:14

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Sluffy wrote:
Did I vote for Brexit and got us into the situation in the first place - no

Did you...

:whistle:
Erm...for the four hundredth time...I didn't. Nor have I ever suggested otherwise. Which if you've read anything I've written on the subject even you would realise. 
Hoppy 510 on the other hand, apparently did, but not me. 
So for everyone's benefit, would be kind enough to either provide the link to anything I've written on this website that suggests I claim to have voted for Brexit or STFU. Don't mind which.
Oh - and I'd be happy to provide you with the link (on this website!) to where you gave the explicit order that nobody is allowed to reference or discuss stuff that happens on other chat forums here on Nuts if you wish?

As regards your answer to your own hypothetical question I don't think the government is in any position to want what I want as you suggest given that they were voted in on the basis that we sack off all EU legislature and write our own. It would be a betrayal to their own core if they accepted EU food standards/ H & S legislation etc. And I think it's part of a bigger geopolitical game anyway.
But leaving the EU was more of a sovereignty issue for many people rather than a considered response to a properly thought through strategy to improve the lot of the British people wasn't it, so we'll have to put up with the consequences.

151How is the Tory government doing? - Page 8 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Oct 14 2020, 01:09

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

wanderlust wrote:
Sluffy wrote:
Did I vote for Brexit and got us into the situation in the first place - no

Did you...

:whistle:
Erm...for the four hundredth time...I didn't. Nor have I ever suggested otherwise. Which if you've read anything I've written on the subject even you would realise. 
Hoppy 510 on the other hand, apparently did, but not me. 
So for everyone's benefit, would be kind enough to either provide the link to anything I've written on this website that suggests I claim to have voted for Brexit or STFU. Don't mind which.
Oh - and I'd be happy to provide you with the link (on this website!) to where you gave the explicit order that nobody is allowed to reference or discuss stuff that happens on other chat forums here on Nuts if you wish?

As regards your answer to your own hypothetical question I don't think the government is in any position to want what I want as you suggest given that they were voted in on the basis that we sack off all EU legislature and write our own. It would be a betrayal to their own core if they accepted EU food standards/ H & S legislation etc. And I think it's part of a bigger geopolitical game anyway.
But leaving the EU was more of a sovereignty issue for many people rather than a considered response to a properly thought through strategy to improve the lot of the British people wasn't it, so we'll have to put up with the consequences.

You ARE Hoppy 510 on ww you complete and utter nutjob!!!!

:rofl:

You don't half crack me up laughing at you, you mentalist!!!!

This is what you posted to Norpig on the open forum ffs!!!!

Kinell Pig - I've just had my "permanent" ban rescinded and now you come on here? Do I need to change my deodorant?

Need your support over there in my efforts to see if two permanent bans are possible. Ross McWhirter's pen is twitching.

http://www.wanderersways.com/forum/topic/90198-hello/?do=findComment&comment=1936138

152How is the Tory government doing? - Page 8 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Oct 14 2020, 16:58

sunlight

sunlight
Andy Walker
Andy Walker

How is the Tory government doing? - Page 8 NvCtI7k

153How is the Tory government doing? - Page 8 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Oct 14 2020, 17:02

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson

sunlight wrote:How is the Tory government doing? - Page 8 NvCtI7k
Very Happy

154How is the Tory government doing? - Page 8 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Oct 14 2020, 22:00

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Sluffy wrote:

You ARE Hoppy 510 on ww you complete and utter nutjob!!!!

:rofl:

You don't half crack me up laughing at you, you mentalist!!!!

This is what you posted to Norpig on the open forum ffs!!!!

Kinell Pig - I've just had my "permanent" ban rescinded and now you come on here? Do I need to change my deodorant?

Need your support over there in my efforts to see if two permanent bans are possible. Ross McWhirter's pen is twitching.

http://www.wanderersways.com/forum/topic/90198-hello/?do=findComment&comment=1936138
Dishonest AND desperate!

155How is the Tory government doing? - Page 8 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Oct 14 2020, 22:02

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

sunlight wrote:How is the Tory government doing? - Page 8 NvCtI7k

Or...

How is the Tory government doing? - Page 8 941

156How is the Tory government doing? - Page 8 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Oct 14 2020, 23:14

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

wanderlust wrote:
Sluffy wrote:

You ARE Hoppy 510 on ww you complete and utter nutjob!!!!

:rofl:

You don't half crack me up laughing at you, you mentalist!!!!

This is what you posted to Norpig on the open forum ffs!!!!

Kinell Pig - I've just had my "permanent" ban rescinded and now you come on here? Do I need to change my deodorant?

Need your support over there in my efforts to see if two permanent bans are possible. Ross McWhirter's pen is twitching.

http://www.wanderersways.com/forum/topic/90198-hello/?do=findComment&comment=1936138
Dishonest AND desperate!

Yes certainly describes you to a tee.

And all because you couldn't admit to having made a mistake in the first place.

The irony being no one ever gave a toss about you being wrong - but you!

157How is the Tory government doing? - Page 8 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Oct 14 2020, 23:25

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

How is the Tory government doing? - Page 8 941

158How is the Tory government doing? - Page 8 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Thu Oct 15 2020, 09:36

sunlight

sunlight
Andy Walker
Andy Walker

Very Happy

159How is the Tory government doing? - Page 8 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Fri Oct 16 2020, 14:10

Guest


Guest

"Prepare for no deal" says Boris.

Hopefully a last ditch attempt to get concessions, but it actually feels like the myths of Brexit have collided with reality. And we're all going to get shit on as a result.

160How is the Tory government doing? - Page 8 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Fri Oct 16 2020, 14:20

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

T.R.O.Y. wrote:"Prepare for no deal" says Boris.

Hopefully a last ditch attempt to get concessions, but it actually feels like the myths of Brexit have collided with reality. And we're all going to get shit on as a result.

We've been preparing for no deal since 2016 mate - always been on the cards as discussed at length prior to the referendum.
What Boris should be saying is "prepare for poverty, unemployment and civil unrest".

I had no faith in the Tories four stage strategy...

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