How is the Tory government doing?

T.R.O.Y. wrote:I’d say we’ve had an absence of leadership that has meant we’ve needed to overcome more issues than we should have so far. I don’t think it’s quite anarchy in the streets yet though.

Again though you mention political point scoring on all sides, can you give any examples of that happening under Starmer?

sunlight wrote:

Sluffy wrote:

Nope, try reading what I wrote again, I never said that.

My point has always been you either have authority and leadership and if you don't you have disobedience/anarchy instead.

In simple terms united we stand divided we fall, if you like.

Obviously I never warned you or anybody else that the government (any government) would set out to undermine itself - how ridiculous is that - I've no idea what you have in your head that came up with that interpretation of what I've wrote???

I warned right from the start that this pandemic should have been a time for unity - a voluntary coalition government in the time of the emergency - rather than constant political point scoring and a gradual and ultimately a catastrophic erosion in public belief/obeying of the rules on a consensual basis, of the government and it's leader and prime advisor.

Mistakes were bound to be made, particularly at the start, when we and the rest of the world were very much in the dark about how best to deal with this thing with the tools at hand at the time.

It's all there at the beginning of this thread if you care to look.

What happened was very much as I predicted, political point scoring, the blame game, looking back to past mistakes rather than moving forward to future solutions, public political flag waving at failures and failings, rather than uniting to getting over them and working towards improvements and successes.

Politics - from both sides - were the cause of this - I'm not just laying the blame at Labours door for all the political point scoring/holding the government 'to account' - the Conservative leadership could (and should) have invited Labour in (particularly when Corbyn finally gave way and stood down) but didn't because of rule two of politics.

The outcome was predictable although it became a car crash over the Cummings debacle when everyone lost complete trust in the current administration - and rightly so.

So as a consequence we've got a government that no one listens too, a large chunk of the population that does as it pleases and a virus that is growing exponentially in the community as a result.

The only thing in our favour thus far is that the virus is generally manageable in terms of hospital admissions, intensive care facilities and low rates of death.

As long as that stays the same no doubt 'we' can get through this irrespective of the leadership of the government or the behaviour of the vast numbers of irresponsible people in the community.

Maybe if we had of had a coalition government things might have been the same but I doubt they could have been much worse and I believe they could well have been substantially better - but that never happened so no point in wishing it had.

Might as well stay as positive as we can and expect things to carry on as they have and manage our own individual risks and get on with our life's - screaming at Boris/Cummings isn't going to change anything now really is it?

wanderlust wrote:Yes it was predictable because this is England where politicians and the people behave and react in a certain way and armed with that knowledge, things should have been better thought through but it seems little thought went into most things so far - which surprises me for a campaign that has held sway in the PR stakes to date. Totally understand your viewpoint with which I broadly agree although I do think someone needs to do something - even if it's just screaming at them - anything for damage limitation at this point.

Sluffy wrote:

What was predictable?

Politicians predictable?

What are you talking about???

The Brexit vote certainly wasn't predictable - although to be fair you voted for it!  Theresa May becoming PM wasn't at all predictable before Cameron's decided to hold a needless referendum.  Corbyn becoming leader of the Labour Party wasn't even remotely thought to be feasible let alone predictable - although his crushing General Election defeat to buffoon Boris was the surest thing that's happened so far this century!  How then you've come to a conclusion that things should have been 'better thought through' absolutely astounds me - half the Tory senior politicians were purged by Boris prior to his GE victory in December last year and unknowingly at the time Covid was already circulating in China by then, so who do you think was planning for what in the middle of a Tory night of the long knives taking place!???  Certainly nothing for a world pandemic just some few months later!!!

As for venting about Boris/the government on here that's certainly not leading to any sort of damage limitation in the slightest is it???

If you feel that strongly go out and do something, otherwise what is the point of being angry on here, that's going to achieve absolutely fuck all!

Did you know that your local MP Duncan Barker stood - and lost - as a UKIP candidate for Holt in the 2015 Local elections and within the space of two years change his party to Conservative,  got elected (I'm guessing by a by-election?) to the council, two years later still became its leader following the May 2019 local election and in December 2019 was elected to Parliament as your MP!

I doubt he could have achieved that by just moaning about politics on the North Norfolk Nuts forum - do you?

https://www.andrewteale.me.uk/leap/results/2015/278/
https://www.northnorfolknews.co.uk/news/duncan-baker-group-leader-of-conservative-party-at-north-norfolk-council-1-6065497
https://modgov.north-norfolk.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=473
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/constituencies/E14000848

wanderlust wrote:Must have spent ages trawling to try to find something to support your flaky argument and you still managed to miss the point. Although you did make one yourself and then argued against it.
And FYI I live in Broadland as it happens so you'd better go back and start again

Sluffy wrote:

It really takes no time at all to google who is the MP for North Norfolk - as you said that's where you lived - and then google his name and all the rest simply popped out.

Tbh it's second nature for me to do such things, it's always been about knowledge is power (scientia potentia est) in my career, it's a great deal easier to do so now then when I started out doing my research at the reference library in town all those years back!

Maybe you should try it sometimes - but then again you think you know it all, already!

Brexit predictable, Corbyn to be leader of the Labour Party, predictable, May to be PM predictable - yeah right!

You did vote for Brexit though to be fair.

Well done, hope you're pleased with your decision still!

wanderlust wrote:Well you're right inasmuch that I do live in the north of Norfolk so I'll give you a tenth of a point for effort but the rest is wordly twaddle given that I wrote about predictable behavioural patterns before you went off at a tangent so I'm afraid it's going to have to be 0.1 out of 10. Must try harder - an occasional fact and sticking to the topic might help.

okocha wrote:I was for a while posting every other day about Boris and the poodles, but there are now so many issues daily that I'd be accused of wearing out the same old record.....and I must admit I feel that way too now! I've been worn down by the sheer volume of errors and sly manipulations!

But I've been driven to comment on the most sinister thing which imo is this pursuit of absolute power with no scrutiny allowed.

 Attempts to prorogue parliament was one thing and now attempts to ensure that there can be no involvement of any MPs beyond ministers on vital national decision-making is another, but.....
.... I object massively to the Tories' recommendations for senior positions at OFCOM(?)  and on the BBC board (as potential chair), both loud, crass critics of our world-renowned BBC news reporting. 

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/sep/27/no-10-told-charles-moore-appointment-could-put-bbcs-independence-at-risk

We seem to be trying to discredit the parts of the UK which are held in the greatest esteem globally. Trump tactics must not be allowed to take place here.

wanderlust wrote:Gove travels to Brussels to begin the climb down.