HomeHip, I have 50p on "ignore", and no longer read any contributions that a member of admin condescends to post for our enlightenment (unless they are quoted by another member whose messages are worth reading and which encourage rather than deter discussion and debate...... and don't include false accusations or deliberate, hostile, sneering attempts to belittle those whose only "mistake" has been to offer an opinion).Hip Priest wrote:
Hahaha||||||||||||||||
The forum is in it's dying throes TROY. As you reminded me previously, it's not worth getting wound up about. In no time at all there will be nobody else left on the site for our glorious leader to "enlighten and inform", except for his pathetic lapdog assistant and the ever popular 50p. I'm sure they'll keep one another happy composing endless vital posts about James Vince and Marcus Rashford and attract loads and loads of vibrant new posters.
How is the Tory government doing?
+16
Angry Dad
karlypants
wanderlust
okocha
xmiles
wessy
Norpig
sunlight
boltonbonce
finlaymcdanger
Ten Bobsworth
gloswhite
Sluffy
Cajunboy
BoltonTillIDie
Hip Priest
20 posters
Message [Page 42 of 50]
821 Re: How is the Tory government doing? Mon May 17 2021, 11:55
okocha
El Hadji Diouf
822 Re: How is the Tory government doing? Mon May 17 2021, 19:55
Guest
Guest
Sluffy wrote:Thought this fitted in quite neatly to what I'd previously been saying about the Palestinian flag wavers...
Four men arrested in anti-Semitism video investigation
Police have arrested four men in connection with a video which appeared to show anti-Semitic abuse being shouted from a car in north London.
Boris Johnson earlier condemned the "shameful racism" aimed at British Jews, which had "no place" in society.
The person who filmed the video told the BBC they cried after witnessing the scene, adding: "I don't feel safe."
Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer said the incident was "utterly disgusting", adding: "There must be consequences".
More here -
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57137151
Thought you’d understood the point to be honest. Not every person who waves a Palestinian flag is anti-Semitic (although these bunch of twats clearly are).
823 Re: How is the Tory government doing? Mon May 17 2021, 20:36
Sluffy
Admin
T.R.O.Y. wrote:Thought you’d understood the point to be honest. Not every person who waves a Palestinian flag is anti-Semitic (although these bunch of twats clearly are).
Thought you'd understood my point to be honest.
You don't fly Palestinian (or Israeali) flags in other peoples country's when there is a 'war' going on unless you support one side and detest the other!
Normal, decent, people including Palestinians/Israels simply don't do jingoism when people on both sides are being killed.
824 Re: How is the Tory government doing? Mon May 17 2021, 20:41
gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
What happened to free speech. (Just thought I would chuck that in) 
825 Re: How is the Tory government doing? Mon May 17 2021, 21:11
Guest
Guest
The flag is a symbol of support. Thousands marched on London under Palestinian flags at the weekend, are they all anti-Semites in your mind?
It’s dangerous to use such terms incorrectly, but you’ve decided to label anyone who shows support for Palestine in that way with it with zero factual evidence. It’s time to look at yourself and question why you believe such things.
It’s dangerous to use such terms incorrectly, but you’ve decided to label anyone who shows support for Palestine in that way with it with zero factual evidence. It’s time to look at yourself and question why you believe such things.
826 Re: How is the Tory government doing? Mon May 17 2021, 22:32
Sluffy
Admin
T.R.O.Y. wrote:The flag is a symbol of support. Thousands marched on London under Palestinian flags at the weekend, are they all anti-Semites in your mind?
It’s dangerous to use such terms incorrectly, but you’ve decided to label anyone who shows support for Palestine in that way with it with zero factual evidence. It’s time to look at yourself and question why you believe such things.
Hahaha...right!
You really think those who are pro-Palestine are also pro Israel too?
Of course they aren't!
You don't have to be Einstein to know when people are being killed out there this very moment that those flying the flags are feeling totally passionate in their beliefs - and that equates to their desire to driving Israel's out of Palestine completely - they won't want to settle at going back to the 1967, or even the 1948, boarders!
Of course you will get the good intentioned naive's of this world who will join the crowds and wave the flags - but they don't know what they are doing.
The people I'm talking about are the anti-semetics activists because they hate Judaism anywhere let alone the Zionism of Israel having been achieved in Palestine, the right wing Neo-Nazi's and you the Sunni Muslim supporters of Iran - all of whom want to wipe Israel off the map.
Whether it was right for foriegn powers such as us (we came up with the Balfour Declaration in the first place) to determine that part of Palestine should become a new nation for the Jews is another matter - but it is far too late to change history now to do much about it - Israel exists and it won't be going away - so some form of compromise needs to be brokered that is going to be tolerable to all involved - and whipping up Palestinian jingoism*/anti Israeli sentiment is never going to allow that.
The answer is thought to be for the Arab nations to declare acceptance of Israel and isolate Iran and its puppets such as Hamas. (The Abraham Accords - see link below)
"Most Arab governments in the Gulf have little love for Hamas, a violent militant group backed by Iran that has so far fired well over 1000 rockets and missiles indiscriminately at Israeli towns. But the sympathies of those countries' Arab populations lie firmly with the Palestinians. If there was some reluctance amongst them to accept the newfound friendship with Israel after so many decades of antipathy then recent events will have only deepened their scepticism".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-57105583
I'm sure someone as knowledgeable as yourself on this subject with your "comprehension of highly complex issues", would have already noted that there is no 'war' going on with the rest of Palestine under PNA (the old Fatah if you will - Yasser Arafat (or are you too young to remember him**)) administration.
I'm sure you also know the Gaza Strip where the rockets into Israel are taking place is under Hamas administartion.
The reason why is one has renounced terrorism and one hasn't - can you guess which is which?
Whilst the world is full of idealistic do-gooders such as yourself, there will always be the naive flag wavers shouting for something they don't fully understand - these people aren't anti-Semitic as such but sadly they will be standing shoulder to shoulder with the hardcore who really would like wipe Israel and Judism off the face of the planet.
If you think I'm being overdramatic then look how far IS took things when they got the chance just a couple of years ago!
* Jingoism
noun
extreme patriotism, especially in the form of aggressive or warlike foreign policy.
** Yasser Arafat's famous speech -
827 Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue May 18 2021, 06:42
Guest
Guest
Do i think Pro-Palestinians are Pro-Israeli? No never said anything like that.
Yes! That is exactly the point. So you seeing a Palestine flag and declaring the people on the end of it are anti-Semitic is incorrect - as you’ve no idea what category they fall into - and dangerous as it pushes the idea that any support of Palestine is anti-Semitic.
Sluffy wrote:
Whilst the world is full of idealistic do-gooders such as yourself, there will always be the naive flag wavers shouting for something they don't fully understand - these people aren't anti-Semitic as such but sadly they will be standing shoulder to shoulder with the hardcore who really would like wipe Israel and Judism off the face of the planet.
Yes! That is exactly the point. So you seeing a Palestine flag and declaring the people on the end of it are anti-Semitic is incorrect - as you’ve no idea what category they fall into - and dangerous as it pushes the idea that any support of Palestine is anti-Semitic.
828 Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue May 18 2021, 11:43
Sluffy
Admin
T.R.O.Y. wrote:Do i think Pro-Palestinians are Pro-Israeli? No never said anything like that.Sluffy wrote:Whilst the world is full of idealistic do-gooders such as yourself, there will always be the naive flag wavers shouting for something they don't fully understand - these people aren't anti-Semitic as such but sadly they will be standing shoulder to shoulder with the hardcore who really would like to wipe Israel and Judism off the face of the planet.
Yes! That is exactly the point. So you seeing a Palestine flag and declaring the people on the end of it are anti-Semitic is incorrect - as you’ve no idea what category they fall into - and dangerous as it pushes the idea that any support of Palestine is anti-Semitic.
Hahaha...you for real????
They are sharing an anti-Semetic message!!!!
They (the naive/idealistic) are simply too dumb to realise it!
If I flew the Nazi Swastika flag because I didn't like the parliamentary system and wanted to show my solidarity with that particular cause, then don't you think I would naively also be seen to be supporting all the other more sinister and disturbing causes also associated with it too - even if I was too stupid to realise it myself?
Do you think that if I flew the flag of Islamic State because I wanted to live in a Caliphate under Shira Law and show my solidarity with that cause, don't you think I would be seen to be supporting everything else that went with it also - even though I never intended too...?
People such as you do have very good intentions - I don't deny that - but do you think the barbarity of Nazism or IS could ever have come about without naive, idealistic and gullible people backing causes (and leaderships) they never really fully understood in the first place?
There is a far bigger picture here than do gooders like you see.
In a sentence that is Iran's aim to remove the state of Israel from the map by using armed force by its proxies in this case that being Hamas - and Hamas doesn't even represent Palestine but just the part of Palestine which is the Gaza Strip. (Hamas/Gaza Strip are the only ones fighting the 'war' NOT the rest of Palestine!).
The well intentioned such as yourself should take more notice of the wise words of the old saying before you blindly act...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_road_to_hell_is_paved_with_good_intentions
For what it is worth this is what Hamas' original Charter stated when it set itself up...
The charter states that "our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious" and calls for the eventual creation of an Islamic state in Palestine, in place of Israel and the Palestinian Territories, and the obliteration or dissolution of Israel. It emphasizes the importance of jihad, stating in article 13, "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors." The charter also states that Hamas is humanistic, and tolerant of other religions as long as they "stop disputing the sovereignty of Islam in this region". The Charter adds that "renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion" of Islam. The original charter was criticized for its violent language against all Jews, which some commentators characterized as incitement to genocide.
...although they have rowed back from it somewhat since BUT haven't formally renounced such views and instead Hamas say they would put it to the people as a referendum to decide.
What way do you think a subjugated Palestinian population are most likely to vote for...?
(Fwiw I don't believe they ever will put it to the people for that very reason).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant
829 Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue May 18 2021, 13:40
Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Waving a Palestinian flag is not anti-semitic at all, that's just a ridiculous statement.
830 Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue May 18 2021, 14:12
Sluffy
Admin
Norpig wrote:Waving a Palestinian flag is not anti-semitic at all, that's just a ridiculous statement.
If you say so.
831 Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue May 18 2021, 14:16
Guest
Guest
Guess it’s all about interpretation.
You see a Palestinian flag and think, anti-Semite.
I see one and think support for Palestine.
Out of interest the two Leicester players holding a flag on the Wembley pitch after the cup final - are they anti-semites too?
You see a Palestinian flag and think, anti-Semite.
I see one and think support for Palestine.
Out of interest the two Leicester players holding a flag on the Wembley pitch after the cup final - are they anti-semites too?
832 Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue May 18 2021, 14:30
boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
This nonsense is one of the reasons I left the Labour Party. Speak out against Israeli government policy and you were given the evil eye. And worse, you were deemed anti-Semitic.Sluffy wrote:
If you say so.
My monthly donations to the Anne Frank Trust, didn't seem to counter the accusations. It's pathetic.
833 Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue May 18 2021, 14:52
okocha
El Hadji Diouf
boltonbonce wrote:
This nonsense is one of the reasons I left the Labour Party. Speak out against Israeli government policy and you were given the evil eye. And worse, you were deemed anti-Semitic.
My monthly donations to the Anne Frank Trust, didn't seem to counter the accusations. It's pathetic.
834 Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue May 18 2021, 14:55
Sluffy
Admin
T.R.O.Y. wrote:Guess it’s all about interpretation.
You see a Palestinian flag and think, anti-Semite.
I see one and think support for Palestine.
Out of interest the two Leicester players holding a flag on the Wembley pitch after the cup final - are they anti-semites too?
Well it seems the powers that be which should have said and done something have turned a very big blind eye to this - I can't seem to find any comment from the FA or the club on this - hardly suprising really imo - neither will want to be seen to be taking any sides.
Do you think clubs will now be taking the knee and flying the Palestine flag before the rest of the PL games this season...?
The FA had previously fined Guardiola for sporting a yellow ribbon as a 'political message' I can't see it being any difference to what the two (Muslim) players did at the Cup Final?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43350447
I think Leicester (Buddhist owner) would much prefer not to acknowledge it even happened?
Fwiw I googled - forfana palestine flag twitter - and found the following - worth having a look at the comments (I only bothered with the first couple of dozen) - but it does show what a can of worms any action from the FA or club would have brought.
Wesley Fofana and Hamza Choudhury flying a Palestinian flag after their FA Cup win over Chelsea.
— Football Tweet (@Football__Tweet) May 15, 2021pic.twitter.com/VXqKRblWeI
Fwiw if the players want to make political/social comment they should do so by their own private means and not whilst employed on 'company business'.
I would have been sacked from my job (and quite rightly so) if I'd done that whilst representing my employer.
835 Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue May 18 2021, 15:24
Guest
Guest
Quite a long winded way to not answer the question.
836 Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue May 18 2021, 15:58
Sluffy
Admin
boltonbonce wrote:This nonsense is one of the reasons I left the Labour Party. Speak out against Israeli government policy and you were given the evil eye. And worse, you were deemed anti-Semitic.Sluffy wrote:
If you say so.
My monthly donations to the Anne Frank Trust, didn't seem to counter the accusations. It's pathetic.
It runs deep Bonce and the problem is that no one has the complete right on their side.
I can't speak about the internal workings of the Labour Party as I've nver been a member but the Jewish nation of Israel was imposed on the state of Muslim Palestine (under British governence at the time) without their consent.
You can liken that to Northern Ireland where a Scottish Protestant land grab was made of the then Catholic population, or where indigenous nations were forced off their tribal lands such as in the USA, Australia and South Africa.
We can't turn back the clock so we have to make the best of what we've got - but how?
Some won't be happy until they reclaim fully what they once had and others won't give that because they have lived on that same land themselves for generations now.
The best hope is finding peace and equality for all somehow.
The problem as we've seen though is that some extremists (on both sides) want a total vanquish of those they hate.
The recent issues in Palestine erupted on the West Bank BUT the Palestinian Government controling that region haven't resorted to violence (in fact they have sometime back renounced it - it was the Hamas controlled Gaza Strip (some SIXTY MILES AWAY as the crow flies) and who HAVEN'T renounced violence that started to fire rockets into Israel and provoke a reaction from them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatah%E2%80%93Hamas_conflict
https://www.distancefromto.net/distance-from-west-bank-to-gaza-ps
Ok perhaps Israel's handling of the issues that got Hamas to fire rockets at their innocent civilians could have been dealt with a lot better but those on the West Bank who were the ones 'suffering' (maybe I use the wrong word but you get what I mean) DIDN'T resort to killing anyone yet a Hamas, a terrorist organisation* based 60 or more miles away DID!!!
(*Canada, the European Union, Israel, Japan and the United States classify Hamas as a terrorist organization. Australia, New Zealand, Paraguay and the United Kingdom classify only its military wing as a terrorist organization. It is not considered a terrorist organization by Brazil, China, Egypt, Iran, Norway, Qatar, Russia, Syria and Turkey. In December 2018, the United Nations General Assembly rejected a U.S. resolution condemning Hamas as a terrorist organization).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas
Those in other country's like ours waving Palestinian flag right now were NOT showing support for the Palestinian's being 'subjugated' (again is that the right word) by Isreal that sparked the issue in the first place in the West Bank BUT the 'rival' Hamas Palestinian Administratio in Gaza - miles away - run by a terrorist group (or at least its military wing is seen as such by the UK government - and if it isn't their military wing organising and firing the rockets then who else do you think would be doing so from inside Gaza?)!!!
Maybe some might begin to see the point I've been making in the last few days - although I expect not.
Fwiw the Palestinian government of the West Bank is now organising a strike in protest to the Israel bombing of Gaza (which is ironic I find - as Hamas in Gaza had no need to get involved in the first place!)
11:43
Palestinians and Israeli Arabs participate in general strike
A general strike backed by the Palestinian Authority and Israeli Arab leaders to protest against Israel’s air campaign in Gaza and its actions elsewhere is under way in the occupied West Bank and Arab neighbourhoods of Israel, with public services and businesses shut.
“We want to send a clear message that we stand together in saying enough to the aggression on Gaza,” said Essam Bakr, one of the organisers, told the New York Times on Monday. “But we are also saying enough to the attacks on the al-Aqsa mosque, enough to the occupation and settlement building and enough to the unjust treatment of Palestinians.”
Demonstrations are also taking place as part of a “day of rage” called by Hamas and the rival Fatah movement, which is led by West Bank-based Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas.
The fighting in Gaza began after weeks of rising Israeli-Palestinian tension in occupied East Jerusalem that culminated in clashes on the al-Aqsa mosque compound, a holy site revered by both Muslims and Jews. Hamas began firing rockets after warning Israel to withdraw from the site, triggering retaliatory air strikes.
There has also been communal violence in Israeli cities and towns with mixed Jewish-Arab populations.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-57154594
Sadly though it is always the innocents who end up suffering...
15:32
There was no warning - Thai worker
We earlier posted on reports that Palestinian rockets launched into southern Israel had struck a packaging factory in the Eshkol region and killed two Thai workers.
Thailand's foreign ministry has now confirmed that two of its citizens died - while eight others were wounded - in the attack at 14:50 local time (11:50 GMT) some 14km (about nine miles) from the border with Gaza.
The two Thai men had been working at the Obad farming estate in Eshkol town, the ministry said.
One eyewitness, Adirek Jinseng, a Thai worker at the estate, told the BBC's Thai service that the attack happened as people were resting during their lunch break.
"I heard two explosions in the sky, but there was no warning siren. More than 10 workers then rushed... to hide in the bunkers," Adirek said, adding that he saw one person killed at the scene and several others with serious injuries.
A senior Thai diplomat in Israel told the BBC that around 4,000 of the country's citizens had been working within a 100km radius of Gaza. Some were relocated to safer areas over the weekend.
RIP.
837 Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue May 18 2021, 16:02
Sluffy
Admin
T.R.O.Y. wrote:Quite a long winded way to not answer the question.
Sluffy wrote:Maybe some might begin to see the point I've been making in the last few days - although I expect not.
838 Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue May 18 2021, 16:27
Sluffy
Admin
Sluffy wrote:Anyway I'm sure you'd like to know (if you didn't already) that the Good Law Project's, Judicial Review in respect of the governments PPE contracts starts tomorrow.
Let's see if any smoking guns are finally revealed!
Although GLP have seemed to changed their legal tack (if not their social media one) and now seems to be seeking judgement based on contracts being awarded after the first wave by the VIP route - their arguement being there was no longer an urgent need anymore and thus normal the tendering process should have replaced the emergency ones (nothing about sleaze or cronyism!).
As we now know a second wave did hit us (and even now - a year on from the first wave ending we have concerns about the Indian varient - and how it may impact on the hospitals) so I would imagine the governments case would be reasonably strong to refute this arguement?
It all depends ultimately on the judges interpretation of the written legislation that the government acted upon - and if the judge believes they did so correctly (note nothing about sleaze or cronyism again!).
Anyway we shall see!
Should be fun!
First blood to the Government it would seem!
At the start of the trial on Tuesday Jason Coppel QC, representing the Good Law Project and EveryDoctor, argued the amount of public money spent on unusable PPE provided by PestFix and Ayanda should be disclosed to the public.
In written arguments, Mr Coppel described the purchase of unusable PPE from the two companies as a “catastrophic waste of public funds”.
Mr Coppel said approximately £595 million was spent with PestFix and Ayanda, but it is not publicly known how much was spent on PPE which did not meet technical standards.
He continued: “The defendant’s unlawful failure to carry out technical assurance on the products to be supplied by Pestfix and Ayanda led directly to the purchase of vast quantities of PPE which was unusable by the NHS, and so to a catastrophic waste of public funds.”
The breakdown of the spending on each type of PPE or the amount paid in pre-payments by the Government to the companies has been kept confidential.
The DHSC argued they are commercially sensitive and Mrs Justice O’Farrell found the specific pricing details were not relevant to what the court has to decide and did not need to be disclosed to the public.
She said: “The case concerns the decision-making process carried out by the defendant … the precise level of the pricing or pre-payments or total amounts spent on PPE that might not have been used or fit for purpose are not relevant to the issues before the court.
“It is not part of this court’s role to consider whether the contracts provided value for money or whether any public money has been wasted.”
She added: “It is not necessary in my judgment for further details of the pricing of the contracts to be made public in these proceedings.”
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/ppe-government-department-of-health-and-social-care-ayanda-capital-justice-b935802.html
With great respect to the judge - who has been fair minded - I do think it is surprising (and legally wrong) that matters of proper public interest be hidden away behind closed doors. Definitely one for a media organisation to take a look at. https://t.co/ZX8Haf0nfQ
— Jo Maugham (@JolyonMaugham) May 18, 2021
Note Maugham saying he knows better than the judge about the law!!!
839 Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue May 18 2021, 16:34
Sluffy
Admin
Seems he thought better of his little rant shortly afterwards and now is covering his backside!!!
I'm not afraid to criticise judges who I think have got stuff wrong. But (with reference to comments below) let me be very clear that, although I disagree with the judge's decision, I don't think any criticism should extend beyond that.
— Jo Maugham (@JolyonMaugham) May 18, 2021
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