How is the Tory government doing?

Hip Priest wrote:It's anticipated that the findings of this Public Enquiry won't be published until after the next General Election. Boris might be many things ( a brazen, unapologetic , lying, blustering, incompetent, greedy, cunning, self serving, purveyor of sleaze/cronyism and serial shagger are just a few of his wonderful attributes).  But daft he very definitely isn't.

I'd only argue with the last sentence! 

His crimes and folly will eventually sink in and cost him when people are prepared to face the truth about him which was laid bare in the famous interview with Eddie Mair on the BBC years ago. He is not bright enough to cover his tracks but thinks a few Latin phrases will prove his intelligence.

Hip Priest wrote:It's anticipated that the findings of this Public Enquiry won't be published until after the next General Election. Boris might be many things ( a brazen, unapologetic , lying, blustering, incompetent, greedy, cunning, self serving, purveyor of sleaze/cronyism and serial shagger are just a few of his wonderful attributes).  But daft he very definitely isn't.

Boris may be many things but he certainly knows the difference between a Public Enquiry and a Public Inquiry unlike some...

If all else fails pull someone on their grammar or spelling, top work Sluffy. I have to say i find it surprising seeing as you say you are dyslexic though.

Norpig wrote:If all else fails pull someone on their grammar or spelling, top work Sluffy. I have to say i find it surprising seeing as you say you are dyslexic though.

You're wrong mate.

I point this out NOT as a spelling mistake but because a Public Enquiry and a Public Inquiry mean two entirely different things.

Hip Priest has spelt Public Enquiry correctly - but it means something completely different than what a Public Inquiry does!

I've highlighted this general lack of knowledge to show how little most people know about the process and what it actually entails.

People have already made their minds up about the outcome they expect to see without the actual facts (rather than all the innuendo they have chosen to believe) being laid out and examined in public.

I'm still waiting for one proof of cronyism to be made - it's been over a year now since the virus struck - you'd think with all these claims of sleaze going around that one smoking gun would have been found by now wouldn't you?

Well I would.

My point being is to let's hear both sides of the story first before we start hanging anyone!

Sluffy wrote:

You're wrong mate.

I point this out NOT as a spelling mistake but because a Public Enquiry and a Public Inquiry mean two entirely different things.

Hip Priest has spelt Public Enquiry correctly - but it means something completely different than what a Public Inquiry does!

I've highlighted this general lack of knowledge to show how little most people know about the process and what it actually entails.

People have already made their minds up about the outcome they expect to see without the actual facts (rather than all the innuendo they have chosen to believe) being laid out and examined in public.

I'm still waiting for one proof of cronyism to be made - it's been over a year now since the virus struck - you'd think with all these claims of sleaze going around that one smoking gun would have been found by now wouldn't you?

Well I would.

My point being is to let's hear both sides of the story first before we start hanging anyone!

We've been badgering Boris to hear the other side of a lot of stories relating to sleaze and cronyism for months now. For some reason the other side of these stories are something that Boris is desperate not to talk about. It doesn't matter how many times you ask him these questions he just looks you in the face, shamelessly ignores the question he is being asked, and waffles on about something else completely.
If everything in the garden is squeaky clean and above board as some people naively believe then why can't Boris answer these questions and put everyone's mind at rest.

Please sir, is my spelling ok sir?...sir?

Hip Priest wrote:

Sluffy wrote:

You're wrong mate.

I point this out NOT as a spelling mistake but because a Public Enquiry and a Public Inquiry mean two entirely different things.

Hip Priest has spelt Public Enquiry correctly - but it means something completely different than what a Public Inquiry does!

I've highlighted this general lack of knowledge to show how little most people know about the process and what it actually entails.

People have already made their minds up about the outcome they expect to see without the actual facts (rather than all the innuendo they have chosen to believe) being laid out and examined in public.

I'm still waiting for one proof of cronyism to be made - it's been over a year now since the virus struck - you'd think with all these claims of sleaze going around that one smoking gun would have been found by now wouldn't you?

Well I would.

My point being is to let's hear both sides of the story first before we start hanging anyone!

We've been badgering Boris to hear the other side of a lot of stories relating to sleaze and cronyism for months now. For some reason the other side of these stories are something that Boris is desperate not to talk about. It doesn't matter how many times you ask him these questions he just looks you in the face, shamelessly ignores the question he is being asked, and waffles on about something else completely.
If everything in the garden is squeaky clean and above board as some people naively believe then why can't Boris answer these questions and put everyone's mind at rest.

Please sir, is my spelling ok sir?...sir?

You're spelling is fine but your understanding of how law and government works is simply nonexistent.

A 'story' whether it be about sleaze or cronyism, is just a story without out any proof - and 'thinking' someone has done something wrong is not the same as they definitely have.  

Innocent until proven guilty is how the process works.

Law is based on proving the facts and not being so guilible as to accept unproven gossip, slurs or inuendo to be true because you may want it to be.

Provide the proof and only then will Boris (or anyone else) then have to answer for it.

If there's no proof there's nothing to answer to, is there?

It's not really a difficult concept to grasp although you obviously don't.

You may well think I am naive, but you'd be very wrong about that if so, as I know full well how the game is played, I've been on the inside of it for many years, for what it is worth.

The game is about proving the facts not believing the gossip and smears.

If Johnson or anyone else has broken the law, then provide the proof and let the courts lock them away for a long time - I've no problem with that.

Trouble is that up to now there has been no proof - and most of the slurs and inuendo comes from one main source - Jolyon Maugham (Good Law Project) - who hates Boris and the Tory party.

Maybe he will find a smoking gun and prove his crusade against them to be justified but up to now - a year after all this has started - he's found (despite a lot of shit being thrown by him and his cronies) absolutely nothing.

As I've said right from the start, politicians DON'T evaluate and award contracts - Civil Servants do.

If anything illegal has happened it can only have been done therefore with the knowledge and aid of a civil servant.

I can't see that actually happening myself, there's too much 'covering one's back' at that level to prevent such fraud happening.

Maugham's in court soon with his allegations over PPE contract awards - maybe he'll produce a smoking gun then - although I strongly doubt it - but I wait to see what happens.

So a D- for your post above and your homework is to read and understand the difference between allegation and proof.

Surely there is no proof against Boris yet because the inquiry has been delayed and Boris has declined to answer direct questions? Doesn’t mean he won’t be found guilty when the time comes. You’re going in circles.
Although Hancock has already been proven to have acted illegally in the contracts thing as evidenced previously so I’m not sure why that keeps getting a mention.

wanderlust wrote:Surely there is no proof against Boris yet because the inquiry has been delayed and Boris has declined to answer direct questions? Doesn’t mean he won’t be found guilty when the time comes. You’re going in circles.
Although Hancock has already been proven to have acted illegally in the contracts thing as evidenced previously so I’m not sure why that keeps getting a mention.

It doesn't keep getting a mention because in its basic form it was just that an administrative 'box ticking' exercise by the civil servants wasn't completed properly at the time due to the priorities of sourcing the PPE equipment rather than signing off each case as being complete with all paper work, within a set time, which was set prior to the worldwide pandemic that impacted on us all.

The judge even accepted that the civil service proved their intent to comply at the time but ruled against the government that they did break the reporting date deadlines.

As for Boris you've answered your own question - "there is no proof against Boris yet" - so he's no need to account for, or answer to, anything right now.

You like Hip Priest and many others have already judged him and the government 'guilty' - but as you say yourself there is no proof that they are.

They are therefore not required to answer to unsubstantiated claims about anything such as sleaze or corruption, etc until proof of which is laid before them in court or at an inquiry.

(...and don't you think that if there is such hard evidence it would be widely known - and leaked - by now???)

It really isn't hard to understand the process of what happens and why rather than make instant judgements based on your own personal prejudices (fed by others on social media such as people with their own agendas like Maugham no doubt) as you and Hip Priest constantly do.

No smoke without fire??    


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56319927

Makes me proud to be British seeing people come together like this.

Story here for anyone who hasn't seen it: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-57100259

T.R.O.Y. wrote:Makes me proud to be British seeing people come together like this.

Not too sure I do.

As always I would like to hear both sides of the story before assuming the crowd knew best - they certainly don't always in my experience.

I also don't think too many 'British' people fly the Palestine outside their house as the picture clearly shows - particularly at a time that they are firing rockets into Israel and killing innocent people including a 5 year old boy.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-57110368

I guess anti-semitism musn't be high up on the concerns of Corbynites such as yourself perhaps - certainly wasn't with Jeremy!

I also don't quite follow why what appears to be a Muslim area went to all that trouble for two Indians - maybe they thought the Immigration Service had 'caught' to Muslims who were here illegally?

And lastly maybe not the best thing that the crowd could have done under the circumstances either -

"They believe Immigration Enforcement has acted provocatively by trying to remove migrants from an ethnically diverse community during Eid.

The resulting protests brought people together, against Covid rules, in part of Glasgow which is experiencing a spike in cases linked to the Indian variant.

Wouldn't it be horrifically ironic if the crowd have saved the two people who may have been the bringers of the Indian virus (and subequent illness and deaths) to their own community - by mistakingly thinking they were fellow Muslim's they were rescuing from potential deportation?


Anyway it is good to hear from you again as you hadn't seemed to be around recently to celebrate our promotion - trust you and yours are all well?

Good work from you under the van though!

That's a great story from Glasgow you posted there TROY. In these dark times of racism, hate and violence it's really a heart warming and encouraging story. In Glasgow of all places too, who'd have thought?
The reply from our resident expert on absolutely everything, who is NEVER wrong about absolutely anything is just truly embarrassing.

Hip Priest wrote:That's a great story from Glasgow you posted there TROY. In these dark times of racism, hate and violence it's really a heart warming and encouraging story. In Glasgow of all places too, who'd have thought?
The reply from our resident expert on absolutely everything, who is NEVER wrong about absolutely anything is just truly embarrassing.

Hahaha!!!

I've been wrong about loads of things in my time BUT I've learned from them!

I've never felt the need to be bloody minded and not accept that I can and do make mistakes and get things wrong.  I've also never thought I knew it all and never been afraid to ask and to learn from others - even now at my age!

I also take the time and trouble to research and analysis the best I can before I post.  

I also keep an open mind.

Clearly you are one of those who don't do much if any of that.

You're one of those whose made their minds up on things - years ago in respect of your political hatred of the Tory party for instance - and refuse to judge them with anything other than your prejudice since.  

Similarly you probably view everything socialist to be wondeful, no matter what it is at all.

Do I think crowds preventing government officers going about their lawful and legitamate business a good thing - no I don't.

Do I think a Palestinian flag should be flying in a Muslim area of Glasgow whilst there are people killing and being killed there right now - no I don't.

Do I think the Muslim community in that area knew the protest was in respect of two Indians - I'm pretty sure they didn't!

Do I think a senior Labour union official should be tweeting to deport Priti Patel because of the incident - certainly not!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57109007

Do I think the two Indians wanted by Immigration will turn up at the police station on the appropriate day next week...

Well do you believe they will???

What is embarrassing is being prejudical and holding a bias when it is so easy to view things fairly and honestly, to listen to both sides and not to believe the haters.

Unfortunately I think you are too far gone to view anything rationally and dispassionately anymore - you clearly much prefer your hatred and prejudices instead.

Is it any wonder with supporters like you that Labour is doing so badly in the elections - even when a joke like Boris is all you have to beat to regain power???

I know you won't understand what I'm saying as you believe you are the one whose got things correctly pegged but an 82 seat majority for the Consevatives should at least be telling you that something is wrong somewhere in your thinking/belief's - although I doubt self analysis is something you bother to do either.

There's none so blind as those that will not see, as the saying goes...

Have a nice day.

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Tell me that one again Sluffy, it's hilarious. You know, the one about you claiming to have an open mind. Best fucking joke I've heard in ages that one mate!
You jump to a lot of conclusions about me. I am not a dyed in the wool Communist/socialist/diehard Labour party supporter. I do not view everything socialist to be wonderful. I don't have a political hatred of the Tory party but do admit to having a healthy distrust in them. That's been borne out of many years of experience of Tory governments and politicians. But I am well aware that whatever I post is only MY OPINION. I don't spend all day doing research before I post like you do in order to prove that I am right about everything. What I post is MY OPINION on things. Using my brain and my common sense about how I view a situation. I'd always stupidly thought that was the purpose of internet discussion forums but obviously I was wrong. You accuse me of preferring hatred and prejudices. Please re-read my and TROY's posts again. They were merely about seeing the kindness, hope and humanity in a given situation in difficult times . Both BBC & ITV used this story as an "and finally," upbeat good news story to close their 10 o'clock national news programmes. You obviously see things differently.

Don’t take him too seriously HP, it’s just Sluffy’s shtick designed to get a reaction.

Hip Priest wrote:Tell me that one again Sluffy, it's hilarious. You know, the one about you claiming to have an open mind. Best fucking joke I've heard in ages that one mate!
You jump to a lot of conclusions about me. I am not a dyed in the wool Communist/socialist/diehard Labour party supporter. I do not view everything socialist to be wonderful. I don't have a political hatred of the Tory party but do admit to having a healthy distrust in them. That's been borne out of many years of experience of Tory governments and politicians. But I am well aware that whatever I post is only MY OPINION. I don't spend all day doing research before I post like you do in order to prove that I am right about everything. What I post is MY OPINION on things. Using my brain and my common sense about how I view a situation. I'd always stupidly thought that was the purpose of internet discussion forums but obviously I was wrong. You accuse me of preferring hatred and prejudices. Please re-read my and TROY's posts again. They were merely about seeing the kindness, hope and humanity in a given situation in difficult times . Both BBC & ITV used this story as an "and finally," upbeat good news story to close their 10 o'clock national news programmes. You obviously see things differently.

I must admit I'm surprised you didn't post your little rant in 'shouty' capitals like you did when you told the site you BELIEVED one anonymous blokes internet persona (xmiles) to be telling the truth and my internet persona (again from some anonymous internet bloke you don't know from Adam) not to be!!!



I've no problem with you or anyone else having an opinion, but if you want to add unnecessary name calling, abuse or insults about me to them, then I'll defend myself.

Clearly you seem to have issues with me, evidenced by the number of derogatory remarks and posts you make about me - which considering you hardly post much, is in a significant number of them when you do!

(I may as well add that also included within your canon of posts, you clearly show a huge bias against the Tory party and are pro-socialist/Labour.  There's clear prejudice and hatred contained in your post history even if you attempt to deny it now.  Actions speak louder than words...).

I couldn't care less about anyones view of me on the internet, not even yours, and I post on here for my own amusement and in the main to share a common interest we all have (BWFC in case you have forgotten what that is) and wherever I can to be helpful and informative to others.

Clearly it is this last bit that causes people like you an issue when what I post (largely based on facts) conflicts with your, and others, OPINION's.

I'm not personally bothered one way or the other if Anderson was a crook, if the ST is the best thing since sliced bread, or if the Tory party have fixed it for their mates to get huge PPE contracts but despite what your 'brain and common sense' might be telling you, the FACTS say differently - Anderson has now 'officially' been cleared of any wrong doing during his period of ownership at the club, the ST as largely been seen now to not be fit for purpose when the club faced oblivion and civil servants evaluate and award contracts not politicians.

I've said these things to enlighten and better inform people on here - it isn't my shtick to get reactions as TROY may think - if you and/or others still wish to believe your 'brain' and 'common sense' instead, well that's up to you but you're going to be awfully disapointed in the end because the facts are contrary to your perceptions and hopes.

Up to you if you want to keep shooting/abusing me as the messenger but it certainly won't make what you wish/hope to believe to be right and the facts of the matter, wrong.

Have a nice day.

You link flying a Palestinian flag to being anti-Semitic and claim the protestors didn’t know who they were supporting, because of tensions between Indians and Muslims.

Neither of these things are enlightening or factual, they are spurious claims based off basic comprehension of highly complex issues and you say them because you want a response.

T.R.O.Y. wrote:You link flying a Palestinian flag to being anti-Semitic and claim the protestors didn’t know who they were supporting, because of tensions between Indians and Muslims.

Neither of these things are enlightening or factual, they are spurious claims based off basic comprehension of highly complex issues and you say them because you want a response.

You don't fly a Palestine flag in a Muslim area of Glasgow if you aren't anti-Semitic and I didn't claim the protesters didn't know who they were supporting but I strongly suspect many didn't.

I suggest both of these comments ARE enlightening, simply because no one had thought about them before I pointed them out - it gives others something more to consider than just what you and the journalist have concentrated upon and both you nor I know what I've stated on this is factual or not - I would believe it to be more likely than not though!

As for seeking a response?

There's only you who ever rail's against what I say on political issues and that's because you hold such strong prejudicial personal views and love to argue.

You're the one who can't stop yourself from jumping into respond like you've just done here!

I don't seek a respose at all, I simply wish to give a much broader perspective to the topic than the one you simply seek to show.

And I've only got a basic comprehension of highly complex issues have I...?

Yeah right...

Fwiw my father served in Palestine just after the war and whilst Israel was being founded.  I've been brought up and raised with a deep sympathy for the Palestinian cause and my father explained to me what the Six-Day War and the later Yom Kippur War were all about as they were happening and the deep injustices they further brought to the Palestinians.

All this before you were probably even born!