How is the Tory government doing?

And here is the EU graphic outlining the deal showing how worse off we are.
Weird that the government didn't mention the concessions they made

Why don't we look at what we have gained rather than keep harping on about what we have lost? (just a thought) 
We paid for what we had before, and we will now pay again, but for a different product. Nothing is free I'm afraid.
I forgot that I had only dropped in to wish you all a Merry Christmas, so will scoot now. 
Best wishes to you all.

gloswhite wrote:Why don't we look at what we have gained rather than keep harping on about what we have lost? (just a thought) 
We paid for what we had before, and we will now pay again, but for a different product. Nothing is free I'm afraid.
I forgot that I had only dropped in to wish you all a Merry Christmas, so will scoot now. 
Best wishes to you all.

Merry Xmas Glos!

BTW I'm not aware of anything that we've "gained" as we had all that and a lot more before, but I must say I'm relieved that we still have access to the Single Market even though it's created an absolute mountain of red tape for UK PLC that I thought we'd managed to get rid of 40 years ago, but...
The upside is that it could have been a helluva lot worse.

Anyhoo, hope you and yours are all well and best wishes for the festive period.

Its a while since I read Das Kapital.

gloswhite wrote:Why don't we look at what we have gained rather than keep harping on about what we have lost? (just a thought) 
We paid for what we had before, and we will now pay again, but for a different product. Nothing is free I'm afraid.
I forgot that I had only dropped in to wish you all a Merry Christmas, so will scoot now. 
Best wishes to you all.

Hi glos good to see you back!

Belated seasonal greetings!

Feel free to post a list of the things we gain but just don't start it with £350m for the NHS.

On first reading the deal seems a bit thin and full of anomalies.
For example: we now have the right to cut workers rights, conditions and standards in order to be more competitive - and the right to question those decisions in the ECJ has been removed.
However the deal also says that if we do that, the EU has the right to impose tariffs and sanctions or even pull out of the whole agreement. So what's different and how does it help?

Let Winston Smith read through it.

sunlight wrote:Let Winston Smith read through it.

He'd probably just repeat his famous line....
"In this game that we’re playing, we can’t win. Some kinds of failure are better than other kinds, that’s all."

wanderlust wrote:
He'd probably just repeat his famous line....
"In this game that we’re playing, we can’t win. Some kinds of failure are better than other kinds, that’s all."

Forsooth!

If I have to be serious for a moment, as I sometimes cant be very serious and post for comedy effect. I always said that a NO DEAL Brexit was very bad for Britain and was against it. However, I havent read through the deal yet as I have been reading more important books, but as long as Britain has got a business deal with the EU that is free of tarrifs and on an even level with the other 27 countries ( 26?) then I find that agreeable. We are better off out of the EU but need the EU equally as much. The highest Judiciary will be our Supreme Court in Westminster which is agreeable. Britain has the mindset of an Island. For me, fishing isnt a particularly lucrative business, why the outrage over it, other than base Gammonry over territory. As I say I havent read through the deal yet, so this is isnt even Academic. I am not Partisan in any way with any Party. I am left-wing, however that doesnt make me object to everything that isnt from a left-wing manifesto, as that would be absurd. On the other hand, if they hadnt got a deal, that would have been very very bad.
If we had got a no deal it would have been disastrous.

sunlight wrote:If I have to be serious for a moment, as I sometimes cant be very serious and post for comedy effect. I always said that a NO DEAL Brexit was very bad for Britain and was against it. However, I havent read through the deal yet as I have been reading more important books, but as long as Britain has got a business deal with the EU that is free of tarrifs and on an even level with the other 27 countries ( 26?) then I find that agreeable. We are better off out of the EU but need the EU equally as much. The highest Judiciary will be our Supreme Court in Westminster which is agreeable. Britain has the mindset of an Island. For me, fishing isnt a particularly lucrative business, why the outrage over it, other than base Gammonry over territory. As I say I havent read through the deal yet, so this is isnt even Academic. I am not Partisan in any way with any Party. I am left-wing, however that doesnt make me object to everything that isnt from a left-wing manifesto, as that would be absurd. On the other hand, if they hadnt got a deal, that would have been very very bad.
If we had got a no deal it would have been disastrous.

...and a lot of people will agree with you. My concerns are that there appear to be a load of clauses which suggest any agreement can be withdrawn at the drop of a hat. And there are questions about major sectors like financial services which was 7% of our GDP. We'll see.

At last, an article that picks out the salient points in the deal.

...both good and bad.

OK I know it's from a Conservative publication so it doesn't examine the potential impact on working people and the poor, but it does cover the headline issues.

The EU has the right to switch off the UK's gas and electricity supplies small print reveals.
Approx 8% of our power comes from the EU apparently.

Another aspect of the deal that has come to light in e.g. this article is that not only do British exporters have do a load more paperwork to sell into the EU, but their customers in the EU will have to do a load of paperwork to receive it - so, as the guy in this article points out, why would they buy from the UK when they can buy from an EU supplier without having to do any paperwork?

Something else has emerged on the additional paperwork front. Apparently the gov have put the onus of VAT collection on businesses that export to the UK.
This Dutch bike parts exporter seems to be the first to refuse to trade with the UK as a result.

An interesting observation at the weekend from columnist Marina Hyde, pointing out something that was clearly illustrated during Johnson's cringeworthy performance on Marr this morning:-

Time and again, Boris Johnson has so deeply regretted even the prospect of having to do difficult things that he hasn’t done them, meaning he has had to do even more regrettable things later. He seems most comfortable casting himself as forever the passive victim of events as opposed to someone who should be out in front of them, shaping them as decisively as possible.

[size=17]Johnson's first thought seems always to be for his own emotions. “I hate having to take these decisions …”, “I deeply regret having to do this …”, “I do this with a heavy heart …” 

Once you’ve noticed the tic you can’t stop hearing it. If only he’d take back control of himself!

I can no longer remember any Boris Johnson podium address that wasn’t riven with subconscious invitations to consider the real victim in all this: him. 

We are forever being subjected to self-dramatising speeches about the latest virus measures he hates. I couldn’t care less how it all makes you feel, Boris. You’re the prime minister. The people listening are the ones you’re supposed to lead, not your psychotherapist.
[/size]

okocha wrote:An interesting observation at the weekend from columnist Marina Hyde, pointing out something that was clearly illustrated during Johnson's cringeworthy performance on Marr this morning:-

Time and again, Boris Johnson has so deeply regretted even the prospect of having to do difficult things that he hasn’t done them, meaning he has had to do even more regrettable things later. He seems most comfortable casting himself as forever the passive victim of events as opposed to someone who should be out in front of them, shaping them as decisively as possible.

[size=17]Johnson's first thought seems always to be for his own emotions. “I hate having to take these decisions …”, “I deeply regret having to do this …”, “I do this with a heavy heart …” 

Once you’ve noticed the tic you can’t stop hearing it. If only he’d take back control of himself!

I can no longer remember any Boris Johnson podium address that wasn’t riven with subconscious invitations to consider the real victim in all this: him. 

We are forever being subjected to self-dramatising speeches about the latest virus measures he hates. I couldn’t care less how it all makes you feel, Boris. You’re the prime minister. The people listening are the ones you’re supposed to lead, not your psychotherapist.
[/size]

This Marina Hyde person wouldn't be a Guardian journalist by any chance, would she? The unbiasedfulness is terrific but who exactly does Okocha think he's preaching to?

Probably an obvious comment and maybe repeating someone else but I wasn't aware that there is a government in this country atm. A collection of lying, self serving incompetent tosspots do not constitute a government in any way and that is what currently inhabits the Palace of Westminster in my opinion.

Problem is the government are damned if they do and damned if they don’t. Put restrictions in place swiftly they’re going over the top or the alternative is they’re too slow to act.

BoltonTillIDie wrote:Problem is the government are damned if they do and damned if they don’t.  Put restrictions in place swiftly they’re going over the top or the alternative is they’re too slow to act.

BTID I'm not just talking about covid although I think they screwed that up from the beginning. The main problem here is Boris Johnson is the same sort of populist plank that Don Trump is. They both make these big promises and say how it's all going to be wonderful without having a clue about how they're going to achieve any of it. The so-called 'Oven Ready' Brexit deal immediately springs to mind here. Boris has been caught out in lie after lie, not mistakes, not misreading the reality, just outright lying for his own ends and to keep the far right happy.

Frankly he's got nothing of substance in his repertoire only soundbites that mean nothing and accomplish less. I agree Co-vid would have caught any Government on the hop but his idiocy was in full view just this week. On Sunday schools were 'completely safe' and every parent should send their children back on Monday. As late as 8 am on January 4th he was still insisting this was the case in absolute disregard to what the experts were telling him and us. By Monday night we were suddenly in another national lockdown and schools were closed as they were 'high risk' places. Worse yet Boris refused to accept any responsibility at all for totally screwing up and tried to blame the scientists for his own failures.

He's made it clear international law means nothing to him and that he's more than willing to violate treaties he himself signed while trying to blame 'Remainers' for the fact his 'deal' was actually worse than the one Theresa May negotiated and that he personally knew it would be from the start. For a man who claims to be a staunch unionist he's done more to destroy the UK in one year than the SNP,Sinn Fein and Plaid Cwmru could have accomplished in a generation.

I used to be a dyed in the wool moderate Conservative but that party no longer exists. In much the same way the Tea Party and MAGA have destroyed the Republicans from within so the 'Brexiteers' and the likes of UKIP have destroyed the Tory party. The far right has managed to totally subvert what it means to be a conservative and now sell nothing but ignorance, fear and hate. We will all pay the price for that, most especially our children and grandchildren unless our generation wakes up and takes the party back to where it belongs, the centre-right.

Of course that's only my opinion but I honestly believe that what we saw in Washington just two days ago wasn't the end or even close to it. As the late, great Winston Churchill said 'this is the end of the beginning'. What happens next and how our country moves forward in the post Brexit and post Covid era will depend entirely on us the voters and our ability to see past the smoke, mirrors and outright lies that have been propogated without true challenge for far too long already.