How is the Tory Shadow Government Doing?

BoltonTillIDie wrote:I’m saying nothing …

Me neither:

BoltonTillIDie wrote:I’m saying nothing …

I assume once again you having yet another little pop at me...

Well whatever you think of me I do stand and fight my corner, back up what I say with research and facts and link to the sources for others to check what I am saying is correct.

Isn't that what a forum is supposed to be all about, to help and inform others, to debate fairly, openly and honestly?

I don't claim and believe all the experts are wrong like W63 does about everything that proves him wrong (global warming, Truss Mini Budget, Covid lockdowns - see testimonies at the current Covid Inquiry, for instance), I don't tell constant lies like Wanderlust (voted for Brexit) I don't do underhand tricks like you have (Nuts Twitter strop) and I don't obsess and become a very, very poor loser like Bob has recently.

I might not be to everyone's liking but I don't carry grudges or vendettas, I've freely shared the ownership and the running of the site to others - including you - I speak honestly, and I don't try to shit on others, even those with their own little axes to grind like those named above.

If the site dies, well at least it dies trying to be what it should be and not develop into yet another place where everybody believes the same things and shares the same hatreds whether they are based on fact or fantasy.

Mostly fantasy unfortunately, being that is how social media works.

You see the last post sums up your problem completely Sluffy. Firstly you continue to quote the ridiculous MSM created insult that anyone who doesn’t agree with you is “Far Right” which is total bollocks. Secondly your assertion that my views are in a minority is disproved by most reliable polls. The Reform party, which I don’t support, is not alone in espousing the views I hold when a majority of Tory voters and probably similar in the Labour Party also support them. Like it or not it is you who is out of step and if your research was anywhere near as accurate as you think it is you’d know that. As I said earlier, there isn’t any point conversing with a conceited, misguided, myopic like you. I’ve worked all over the UK including in London thank you and have seen for myself the degradation it’s suffered mainly through immigration. Finally your belief that Islam presents no problem here. If you genuinely believe that then there’s really no point in continuing to discuss it with you.

boltonbonce wrote:
I'm amazed you expect sensible dialogue on here. We're not the Algonquin round table.

Bonce, given that most of the posters on here hold a view yet can accept others views without branding them racists, facists, deniers or far right, I do expect sensible dialogue. Unfortunately one insufferable bigot seems to feel that unless you agree entirely with his views you are some kind of “ist”. It’s sad really that someone with obvious intelligence can be so annoying.

Whitesince63 wrote:You see the last post sums up your problem completely Sluffy. Firstly you continue to quote the ridiculous MSM created insult that anyone who doesn’t agree with you is “Far Right” which is total bollocks. Secondly your assertion that my views are in a minority is disproved by most reliable polls. The Reform party, which I don’t support, is not alone in espousing the views I hold when a majority of Tory voters and probably similar in the Labour Party also support them. Like it or not it is you who is out of step and if your research was anywhere near as accurate as you think it is you’d know that. As I said earlier, there isn’t any point conversing with a conceited, misguided, myopic like you. I’ve worked all over the UK including in London thank you and have seen for myself the degradation it’s suffered mainly through immigration. Finally your belief that Islam presents no problem here. If you genuinely believe that then there’s really no point in continuing to discuss it with you.

EH???

The MSM is stating that anyone who doesn't agree with me is 'Far Right?

Wtf are you on about???

And I certainly don't need confirmation from anyone including the MSM to know that someone who clearly wants controls over Muslims, who denies there is a man made global warming through the burning of fossil fuels and believes in 'Trickle Down' economics (aka as Truss economics) are a supporter of far right (Libertarian) political views.

Yes the post I made does sum me up because I do run the forum honestly, truthfully and unselfishly and if you or anyone else doesn't like it then find some place else to post your rancour and racism.

And you are wrong, your views are in a minority, no party, Reform or otherwise, will win a General Election in this country based on racism towards Muslims (or any one else for that matter), certainly not in my lifetime and hopefully never.

Of course there are plenty of racists and haters out there - mostly from generally poorly educated backgrounds, with anti-social behavioural issues - they are often classed as Social racists -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Societal_racism

And where did I ever say that Muslims don't present any problems here - you are making things up - of course Muslims create problems, so to do Christians, Jews and any other fanatics (religious or not) that you care to mention.

It's the 'extremists' that cause the problems NOT the religion itself OR the vast majority of those who believe in it.

As for ME being a bigot...

Whitesince63 wrote:Unfortunately one insufferable bigot seems to feel that unless you agree entirely with his views you are some kind of “ist”.

I'm not the one who is posting racist views...

...that's YOU!!!

Anyone who uses the phrase Mainstream Media is a crackpot in my eyes.

Norpig wrote:Anyone who uses the phrase Mainstream Media is a crackpot in my eyes.

It's always telling. We all know GB News is the home of the truth.

Norpig wrote:Anyone who uses the phrase Mainstream Media is a crackpot in my eyes.

Anyone who believes me to be a bigot IS a crackpot - full stop.

The rise of the anti-Mainstream Media in this country is a relative new thing and was in fact started out by the left wing political groups because they perceived the existing mainstream media to be 'protecting the interests of elites and perpetuating the political status quo'.

So - if it needs any spelling out which it shouldn't - the existing mainstream media IS already considered politically right-wing biased to begin with - which they are The Mail, The Express, Murdock's Sun and The Times, even the political appointment of Boris mate to Chairman of the BBC!!!

BBC chairman Richard Sharp resigns after Boris Johnson loan row
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-65338490

So if you have Tory supporters like W63 believing that the already controlled and politically biased mainstream media is not representing THEIR political views, then by definition the are to the more extreme right-wing in their political beliefs - and which I have been pointing out to him multiple times which he flatly cannot see himself.

He's simply in denial as to what he really is - if you pardon the 'duck' analogy...

if he believes that current mainstream media is politically 'left-wing' supporting, that traditional Tory politicians (Rishi, Cameron, May, etc) are too wet, that traditional Tory Party politics don't go far enough - need to muzzle the Muslims, leave the European Court on Human Rights, etc, and implicitly believes  far right (Libertarian) doctrine - global warming denial, Trickledown economics, anti-Covid lockdowns, etc - then he is indeed an extreme right wing political believer.



A bit of background about Beyond the mainstream media (MSM)

After the British public voted to leave the EU, Donald Trump's presidential victory and Jeremy Corbyn's rising support during the 2017 UK election campaign, the mainstream media (MSM) were criticised for not anticipating these events. They were accused of not reflecting or understanding many people's alienation from and anger with the mainstream media and political establishment.

On both sides of the political spectrum, the acronym MSM has become a widely used pejorative term to characterise a broad range of legacy media that represents the establishment, protecting the interests of elites and perpetuating the political status quo.

It is in this context that many voters went beyond the MSM during the 2017 UK general election campaign and turned to what have been labelled alt-left media sites, where more pro-Labour and anti-MSM messages were being conveyed. This included sites such as The Canary, Evolve Politics, Wings over Scotland, Novara Media, Skwawkbox and Another Angry Voice.

They became a prominent part of the campaign because they reached voters across many social media platforms, particularly Facebook, and bypassed the reliance on MSM for news. The rise of new alternative left media were credited with not just helping Jeremy Corbyn's Labour secure more votes amongst young people, but challenging the MSM's agenda setting power, including diminishing the editorial power of right wing newspapers, which far outnumber left-leaning titles.

Since they rose to prominence during the 2017 UK election campaign, there has been no research examining the content of these sites, the editorial motivation behind them or how people understand and engage with them.

https://www.cardiff.ac.uk/research/explore/find-a-project/view/1516657-beyond-the-msm-understanding-the-rise-of-alternative-online-political-media

boltonbonce wrote:

Norpig wrote:Anyone who uses the phrase Mainstream Media is a crackpot in my eyes.

It's always telling. We all know GB News is the home of the truth.

It would be interesting to know if W63 hasn't left us for good, what other form of media does he get his news and information from to form his views on the world on other than UK News as clearly it isn't from his hated MSM is it?

Serious question W63.

Sluffy wrote:

It would be interesting to know if W63 hasn't left us for good, what other form of media does he get his news and information from to form his views on the world on other than UK News as clearly it isn't from his hated MSM is it?

Serious question W63.

Sluffy, I watch all the news programmes which is how I know that the main channels you frequent so often bend the news or ignore a counter position. It’s a shame you don’t listen to the likes of Talk and GB news who at least put both sides of a discussion.

You on the other hand are so entrenched in your views that you won’t even consider those of others, instead labelling them racist, deniers or some other silly name. I totally respect your views and accept that you are entitled to have them, perhaps you should respect others views and accept that we are entitled to ours without the insults?

Beau's a bit late with this, we've seen the rise of far right loony politicians for a number of years now, Bolsonaro been and gone in Brazil, Oban in Hungry, Javier Milei soon to be Argentina's President, Robert Fico in Slovakia and we had Truss here in the UK.

All really, really bad news and not good for the world we live in - and no I'm not being overdramatic in my statement.

AND these are people that have been democratically elected - we aren't talking about the autocrats like Xi, Putin, Iran, Saudi and in the news today the UAE...

COP28: UAE planned to use climate talks to make oil deals
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-67508331

God help the planet if Trump does get back into power again.

Whitesince63 wrote:
Sluffy, I watch all the news programmes which is how I know that the main channels you frequent so often bend the news or ignore a counter position. It’s a shame you don’t listen to the likes of Talk and GB news who at least put both sides of a discussion.

You on the other hand are so entrenched in your views that you won’t even consider those of others, instead labelling them racist, deniers or some other silly name. I totally respect your views and accept that you are entitled to have them, perhaps you should respect others views and accept that we are entitled to ours without the insults?

I'm a huge fan of GB News, but only for the comedy value. What a cast. Shame some of the funniest got sacked, but there's still a lot to go at.

Sluffy wrote:Beau's a bit late with this, we've seen the rise of far right loony politicians for a number of years now, Bolsonaro been and gone in Brazil, Oban in Hungry, Javier Milei soon to be Argentina's President, Robert Fico in Slovakia and we had Truss here in the UK.

All really, really bad news and not good for the world we live in - and no I'm not being overdramatic in my statement.

AND these are people that have been democratically elected - we aren't talking about the autocrats like Xi, Putin, Iran, Saudi and in the news today the UAE...

COP28: UAE planned to use climate talks to make oil deals
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-67508331

God help the planet if Trump does get back into power again.

What do you think of Beau, 63? He's always a good listen I find.

boltonbonce wrote:

Hey, I didn’t know Sluffy had a twin Bonce. What a load of tosh but at least he doesn’t have a moggy crawling all over him whilst he’s spouting it.

Sluffy wrote:Beau's a bit late with this, we've seen the rise of far right loony politicians for a number of years now, Bolsonaro been and gone in Brazil, Oban in Hungry, Javier Milei soon to be Argentina's President, Robert Fico in Slovakia and we had Truss here in the UK.

All really, really bad news and not good for the world we live in - and no I'm not being overdramatic in my statement.

AND these are people that have been democratically elected - we aren't talking about the autocrats like Xi, Putin, Iran, Saudi and in the news today the UAE...

COP28: UAE planned to use climate talks to make oil deals
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-67508331

God help the planet if Trump does get back into power again.

Sluffy, do you doubt that the populations of the likes of China, N Korea, Russian, Saudi, Iran and other states wouldn’t vote similar “far right” politicians (in your view) into power given the chance? Go live there and see how long your silly views would last.

Whitesince63 wrote:

Sluffy wrote:

It would be interesting to know if W63 hasn't left us for good, what other form of media does he get his news and information from to form his views on the world on other than UK News as clearly it isn't from his hated MSM is it?

Serious question W63.

Sluffy, I watch all the news programmes which is how I know that the main channels you frequent so often bend the news or ignore a counter position. It’s a shame you don’t listen to the likes of Talk and GB news who at least put both sides of a discussion.

You on the other hand are so entrenched in your views that you won’t even consider those of others, instead labelling them racist, deniers or some other silly name. I totally respect your views and accept that you are entitled to have them, perhaps you should respect others views and accept that we are entitled to ours without the insults?

No mate.

I respect your right to have such view but I certainly don't respect those views - if you or anyone else make racist remarks - and you have - then I will call you a racist for having such views - and I don't see that as insulting you, I see it as stating what you yourself has self identified yourself as such.

If you won't accept scientific proof that the current global warming is totally down to man made burning of fossil fuel - because you don't believe what the experts say - then I will label you as being in denial - because you ARE in denial of the irrefutable scientific proof about this.

I'm NOT entrenched in my views as you seem to be under the mistaken belief of - I'm all about seeking out the truth and the facts - I'm more than happy to change my position on absolutely anything if real evidence can be shown to show that I was on the wrong track or was misunderstanding things.

You're the one with the closed mind, you're the one with clear Islamophobia fears, you're the one who decries the experts and scientific findings - you're the one entrench in your 'belief's' and opinions - not me!

It's just as simple and as clear as that.

Whitesince63 wrote:
Hey, I didn’t know Sluffy had a twin Bonce. What a load of tosh but at least he doesn’t have a moggy crawling all over him whilst he’s spouting it.

Ah, 63, the mask has finally slipped.

Whitesince63 wrote:

Sluffy wrote:Beau's a bit late with this, we've seen the rise of far right loony politicians for a number of years now, Bolsonaro been and gone in Brazil, Oban in Hungry, Javier Milei soon to be Argentina's President, Robert Fico in Slovakia and we had Truss here in the UK.

All really, really bad news and not good for the world we live in - and no I'm not being overdramatic in my statement.

AND these are people that have been democratically elected - we aren't talking about the autocrats like Xi, Putin, Iran, Saudi and in the news today the UAE...

COP28: UAE planned to use climate talks to make oil deals
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-67508331

God help the planet if Trump does get back into power again.

Sluffy, do you doubt that the populations of the likes of China, N Korea, Russian, Saudi, Iran and other states wouldn’t vote similar “far right” politicians (in your view) into power given the chance? Go live there and see how long your silly views would last.

You're just being childish now.

Anyone who dissents from the regimes line is immediately put into prison or is killed in those countries and fwiw several have sham elections anyway which is why Xi, Putin and Iran's Ayatollah's choice ALWAYS wins whilst Saudi and North Korea are family dynasties (job for life) rulers with no democracy at all.

That's the drift that the likes of Trump would like to achieve for themselves.

If you dismantle the state - which basically Libertarianism is about - them you totally undermine democracy - and ultimately return to the era of dynastic power - ie Trump saying he won the election - his followers storming their version of Parliament, Johnson telling lies to Parliament, his illegal prorogation of Parliament, his belief that he was above the law, etc, etc.

Is that the sort of world you really want your children and grandchildren to live in?

Because that is the way the wind is blowing these days...

Hence what Beau is trying to say in his video.

Sluffy wrote:

No mate.

I respect your right to have such view but I certainly don't respect those views - if you or anyone else make racist remarks - and you have - then I will call you a racist for having such views - and I don't see that as insulting you, I see it as stating what you yourself has self identified yourself as such.

If you won't accept scientific proof that the current global warming is totally down to man made burning of fossil fuel - because you don't believe what the experts say - then I will label you as being in denial - because you ARE in denial of the irrefutable scientific proof about this.

I'm NOT entrenched in my views as you seem to be under the mistaken belief of - I'm all about seeking out the truth and the facts - I'm more than happy to change my position on absolutely anything if real evidence can be shown to show that I was on the wrong track or was misunderstanding things.

You're the one with the closed mind, you're the one with clear Islamophobia fears, you're the one who decries the experts and scientific findings - you're the one entrench in your 'belief's' and opinions - not me!

It's just as simple and as clear as that.

You see Sluffy that post sums up your problem completely. You absolutely don’t respect my views because they differ with yours. Yet again you accuse me of being a racist when I admit concern about the rising tide of Islam in the U.K. That’s not racist it’s a widely held common and increasing view.

As for your facts regarding global warming. They are not facts, or at least not proven facts, just a consensus view of certain scientists. Other eminent scientists disagree as do I. Of course global warming is real, it’s just the cause I disagree on.

You are definitely entrenched in your views and as I’ve said I have no problem in your expressing them but likewise I am entitled to my views yet once again in your last post you attempt to insult me for them. Let’s face it Sluffy you’re just an insufferably arrogant individual who just can’t help himself.