How is the Tory Shadow Government Doing?

Whitesince63 wrote:You see Sluffy that post sums up your problem completely. You absolutely don’t respect my views because they differ with yours. Yet again you accuse me of being a racist when I admit concern about the rising tide of Islam in the U.K. That’s not racist it’s a widely held common and increasing view.

"That widely held common and increasing view" is indeed RACIST

For your information...

Ethnicity facts and figures
Government data about the UK's different ethnic groups.

82% of people in England and Wales are white, and 18% belong to a black, Asian, mixed or other ethnic group (2021 Census data).
https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/#:~:text=Government%20data%20about%20the%20UK's,group%20(2021%20Census%20data).

The United Kingdom's population is predominantly White British (81.88% at the 2011 Census), but due to migration from Commonwealth nations, Britain has become ethnically diverse. The second and third largest non-white racial groups are Asian British at 7% of the population, followed by Black British people at 3%.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_Kingdom#:~:text=The%20United%20Kingdom's%20population%20is,Black%20British%20people%20at%203%25.

Asian British would include Indians who mainly aren't Muslims (although some are).

For argument sake lets assume if you take out of that percentage the non Muslim Indians and replace them with other nationalities that are Muslims the figure is roughly the same.

So we are talking about 7% of the UK population of which the vast majority of these Muslims are just normal law abiding folk like most of the rest of us are.

Even if we say 1 in 7 of them are extremists (the true figure would be much smaller), that amounts to just 1% of the whole of the UK's population generating all the fear/hatred/anger/racism that you exhibit in your outpourings below!

Your fears and the reality are poles apart from what you believe them to be.

Of course there are issues but your fears are simply not the reality that you perceive them to be.

Knife wielding Muslim nutjobs attack your daughter in laws school - shocking, certainly should not be allowed - but how often has it happened and how many schools are there and how many days are all these schools open on?

The chances of this happening again is probably similar as to winning the lottery jackpot - it does happen but the chances are all but zero.

Muslims aren't the problem - the problem is the extremists - and you if I may say so are being extremists in your views also - as Churchill once said it is better to jaw jaw than war war!

You can't subjugate every Muslim in this country because there are a few nutters who are Muslim, no more than you can subjugate all the white folk because they have nutters like Sutcliffe, Bellfield, Fred West and the like.

You can't blame the religion or the colour of folks and say they are all bad - as you are clearly doing - that IS racism - you have to accept that only 'some' Muslims are radicalised, as some white folk are radicalised in to believing white supremacy - both are as bonkers as each other and you are equally as bonkers if you can't see this - and you can't can you???

Whitesince63 wrote:It’s just another example of our immigrant friends and myopic youth flagrantly defying the democratic process. That’s understandable with those from the Middle East who never lived under a democratic system but it shouldn’t be tolerated if this country is to stay governable.


This has only one meaning and I’m sure this is only the first of many such actions filling young Muslim children with the hatred of their elders. We stand back and use freedom of speech to allow this when every sane person knows this is unacceptable.

https://boltonnuts.forumotion.co.uk/t24518p980-how-is-the-tory-government-doing#457840

Whitesince63 wrote:
Firstly Sluffy I’m happy to be in the same camp as all those CENTRE RIGHT politicians you’ve named because they at least fight to retain our British values.

If you also fail to understand the growing threat of Islam in this country then there isn’t a discussion to be had.

This is sadly not an isolated incidence by the way and yet you don’t see a threat? Get real you myopic.

This is not far right, this is not racism, it’s the reality of our country today and unless people wake up to it, God knows t kind of a country our grandkids will inherit and all created by the likes of you.

https://boltonnuts.forumotion.co.uk/t24518p980-how-is-the-tory-government-doing#457930

Whitesince63 wrote:I’d encourage you to actually open your eyes to what’s happening because you are the one who’s stuck whilst the country around you is sinking under the weight of immigration. 

Look at what happened politically in Holland yesterday, in Italy recently, increasingly in France and even in Germany where people are finally waking up to the damage that mass immigration from Islamic countries is causing. Sadly most of our politicians and Media are like you stuck in myopia or refusal to accept the facts. In our own country the reform Party are now polling as high as 12% so I suppose they’re all extreme right wingers as well? You need to wake up pal instead of ignoring the growing problem.

https://boltonnuts.forumotion.co.uk/t24518p980-how-is-the-tory-government-doing#457977

Whitesince63 wrote:...and your ridiculous assertion that Muslims are happy to live harmoniously besides other religions, when most people know that all over the world many Muslims can’t even live in peace with other Muslims of different persuasions.

https://boltonnuts.forumotion.co.uk/t24518p1000-how-is-the-tory-government-doing#458004

Whitesince63 wrote:The only thing I need helping out on Bonce is how otherwise sensible people can’t accept the damage that increasing and unregulated immigration is doing to this country and especially by those whose religion and culture is totally incompatible with our own.

https://boltonnuts.forumotion.co.uk/t24518p1000-how-is-the-tory-government-doing#458010

Whitesince63 wrote:I’ve worked all over the UK including in London thank you and have seen for myself the degradation it’s suffered mainly through immigration. Finally your belief that Islam presents no problem here. If you genuinely believe that then there’s really no point in continuing to discuss it with you.

https://boltonnuts.forumotion.co.uk/t24518p1000-how-is-the-tory-government-doing#458034

Whitesince63 wrote:
As for your facts regarding global warming. They are not facts, or at least not proven facts, just a consensus view of certain scientists. Other eminent scientists disagree as do I. Of course global warming is real, it’s just the cause I disagree on.

As for this I've posted up the links several times showing the unquestionable proof that this period of global warming can only have arisen out of the man made burning of fossil fuel as the C02 isotope caused by such burning of fossil fuel - being if you like the DNA of what is happening, is quite different than the only other way CO2 can be formed by volcanic action.

There other who are these other 'eminent' scientist you claim that rejects these proofs because I simply don't believe there are any.

Here are just some of my experts -

The Royal Society
https://royalsociety.org/topics-policy/projects/climate-change-evidence-causes/basics-of-climate-change/

The United Nations
https://www.un.org/en/climatechange/science/causes-effects-climate-change

Oxford University
https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/

Caltech
https://scienceexchange.caltech.edu/topics/sustainability/evidence-climate-change

Harvard University
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2023/01/harvard-led-analysis-finds-exxonmobil-internal-research-accurately-predicted-climate-change/

The Met Office
https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/climate-change/causes-of-climate-change

NASA
https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/

National Geographic
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/fossil-fuels

Whitesince63 wrote:You are definitely entrenched in your views and as I’ve said I have no problem in your expressing them but likewise I am entitled to my views yet once again in your last post you attempt to insult me for them. Let’s face it Sluffy you’re just an insufferably arrogant individual who just can’t help himself.

I may be many things W63 but I've given you enough facts and figures to make any reasonable person reconsider their viewpoint on racism and man made global warming.

If you want to be in denial about them, then stating that you ARE making racist statements and that you ARE in denial about man made global warming are simply statements of fact.

It's as simple as that.

Sorry 63, but you won't win this argument. Sluffy, however you feel about him, comes armed with facts.
You come with conspiracy theories, right wing talking points, and a small minded mentality.
You're fighting a tank with a water pistol.

boltonbonce wrote:Sorry 63, but you won't win this argument. Sluffy, however you feel about him, comes armed with facts.
You come with conspiracy theories, right wing talking points, and a small minded mentality.
You're fighting a tank with a water pistol.

But he doesn’t come armed with facts Bonce he comes up with consensus opinions which are not facts as other scientists, politicians , environmentalists and specialists generally hold a different consensus. I’m not trying to win an argument bonce, I have no need to and the pathetic attempt to prove his points by selectively taking snippets of views as if they prove his case is laughable. I give up now anyway, I don’t read his posts which are both too long and filled with rubbish. If he wants to believe he’s always right more fool him.

Whitesince63 wrote:
But he doesn’t come armed with facts Bonce he comes up with consensus opinions which are not facts as other scientists, politicians , environmentalists and specialists generally hold a different consensus. I’m not trying to win an argument bonce, I have no need to and the pathetic attempt to prove his points by selectively taking snippets of views as if they prove his case is laughable. I give up now anyway, I don’t read his posts which are both too long and filled with rubbish. If he wants to believe he’s always right more fool him.

I thought the Home Secretary was pretty poor in The House today. His apology for using unparliamentary language, fell well short of what was needed.
It was an opportunity missed, in my book, to do the right thing, and offer a full apology to the MP concerned.
Not much quality on either side of the house these days.

Whitesince63 wrote:

boltonbonce wrote:Sorry 63, but you won't win this argument. Sluffy, however you feel about him, comes armed with facts.
You come with conspiracy theories, right wing talking points, and a small minded mentality.
You're fighting a tank with a water pistol.

But he doesn’t come armed with facts Bonce he comes up with consensus opinions which are not facts as other scientists, politicians , environmentalists and specialists generally hold a different consensus. I’m not trying to win an argument bonce, I have no need to and the pathetic attempt to prove his points by selectively taking snippets of views as if they prove his case is laughable. I give up now anyway, I don’t read his posts which are both too long and filled with rubbish. If he wants to believe he’s always right more fool him.

Dear God how many more times do I have to explain things to you???

I'm NOT talking about consensus opinions I'm stating SCIENTIFIC FACTS!

Nature can only produce CO2 - the global warming gas, in TWO ways, either from volcanic activity or burning fossil fuels - each way has its very own signature - it's unique DNA - and that is from how each method produces its isotope.

Isotope

Isotopes are distinct nuclear species (or nuclides, as technical term) of the same chemical element. They have the same atomic number (number of protons in their nuclei) and position in the periodic table (and hence belong to the same chemical element), but differ in nucleon numbers (mass numbers) due to different numbers of neutrons in their nuclei. While all isotopes of a given element have almost the same chemical properties, they have different atomic masses and physical properties.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotope

In simple terms CO2 produced by volcanic action is from the burning of rocks - ie things that have never lived, whilst CO2 is the burning of what were once trees and for a brief time whilst they grew were alive and had a different composition to the never lived rocks melted and spewed into the atmosphere through vulcanisation.

It's explained in simple language here which I've posted up for you to read at least twice before...

How do we know the build-up of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is caused by humans?
https://www.climate.gov/news-features/climate-qa/how-do-we-know-build-carbon-dioxide-atmosphere-caused-humans

That is why ALL THE SCIENTIFIC BODIES IN THE WORLD state that global warming is man made and only cranks in the pay of the fossil fuel industry are bought to say something else.

Read any of the other links I've provided above from the worlds greatest scientific institutions and you will quickly see they tell the same things - because the science behind all this is know and has been known for at least the last decade or more!

And I'm not here to win arguments - what good would it do me if I won?

I'm here to stop fake, news, hatred and lies being posted on our forum.

As Bonce says all you come with is conspiracy theories, right wing talking points, and a small minded mentality.

Very small minded indeed...

This is the kind of nonsense we're having to deal with.

https://www.youtube.com/post/UgkxT0a8FBJBAlbgcyGBNoXB6ZLhMy1EdtNJ

Sluffy wrote:

Dear God how many more times do I have to explain things to you???

I'm NOT talking about consensus opinions I'm stating SCIENTIFIC FACTS!

Nature can only produce CO2 - the global warming gas, in TWO ways, either from volcanic activity or burning fossil fuels - each way has its very own signature - it's unique DNA - and that is from how each method produces its isotope.

Isotope

Isotopes are distinct nuclear species (or nuclides, as technical term) of the same chemical element. They have the same atomic number (number of protons in their nuclei) and position in the periodic table (and hence belong to the same chemical element), but differ in nucleon numbers (mass numbers) due to different numbers of neutrons in their nuclei. While all isotopes of a given element have almost the same chemical properties, they have different atomic masses and physical properties.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotope

In simple terms CO2 produced by volcanic action is from the burning of rocks - ie things that have never lived, whilst CO2 is the burning of what were once trees and for a brief time whilst they grew were alive and had a different composition to the never lived rocks melted and spewed into the atmosphere through vulcanisation.

It's explained in simple language here which I've posted up for you to read at least twice before...

How do we know the build-up of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is caused by humans?
https://www.climate.gov/news-features/climate-qa/how-do-we-know-build-carbon-dioxide-atmosphere-caused-humans

That is why ALL THE SCIENTIFIC BODIES IN THE WORLD state that global warming is man made and only cranks in the pay of the fossil fuel industry are bought to say something else.

Read any of the other links I've provided above from the worlds greatest scientific institutions and you will quickly see they tell the same things - because the science behind all this is know and has been known for at least the last decade or more!

And I'm not here to win arguments - what good would it do me if I won?

I'm here to stop fake, news, hatred and lies being posted on our forum.

As Bonce says all you come with is conspiracy theories, right wing talking points, and a small minded mentality.

Very small minded indeed...

🥱🥱🥱 ZZZZZZZ.

Ever thought that the people who are denying climate change are doing it for their own dodgy and financial reasons? You only have to look at UAE doing private deals for fossil fuels at the COP summit

Norpig wrote:Ever thought that the people who are denying climate change are doing it for their own dodgy and financial reasons? You only have to look at UAE doing private deals for fossil fuels at the COP summit

That is exactly what is happening Norpig.

The massive global companies and countries rich in fossil fuels are dependant on the world carrying on buying their coal and oil.

These companies and countries are all super rich and money is no object in spending fast amounts of money on right wing propaganda to deny fossil fuel is causing irreputable global warming and 'buy' politicians, scientists, or whoever they want to convince morons like W63 that they are right and that all the other scientists in the world are wrong.

Sounds a crazy plan doesn't it - but most people are to greedy or stupid to care - they like W63 rather have cheap power from fossil fuel now than pay more to protect the planet in 20, 30, or 40 years time when they won't be around - but their children and grandchildren will be though.

Everyone with a brain - even the owners of the global corporations or the rulers of the countries with all the fossil fuels, know what is going to happen but they simply don't care - their children and grandchildren will be fabulously wealthy and can buy the best protection they can for whatever they will have to face in years to come - it's the rest of us that will suffer.

It is what it is though - humans have generally always been stupid and selfish - law of the jungle type thing.

I'll not be around to see things go bad but my daughter will and if she has kids they will live to see how things go from bad to worse - and they will - the science is clear enough to know what will happen - the planet has gone through a phase like this once before several billon years ago.

It is all clearly explained in the BBC iplayer series 'Earth'

I highly recommend watching it but as it isn't being shown on GB News I know W63 won't be troubling himself to learn what he is in total denial about...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0fpwly8/earth-series-1-1-inferno

And what is going on with the MP's doing private deals with this green energy bollocks?

Sluffy wrote:

That is exactly what is happening Norpig.

The massive global companies and countries rich in fossil fuels are dependant on the world carrying on buying their coal and oil.

These companies and countries are all super rich and money is no object in spending fast amounts of money on right wing propaganda to deny fossil fuel is causing irreputable global warming and 'buy' politicians, scientists, or whoever they want to convince morons like W63 that they are right and that all the other scientists in the world are wrong.

Sounds a crazy plan doesn't it - but most people are to greedy or stupid to care - they like W63 rather have cheap power from fossil fuel now than pay more to protect the planet in 20, 30, or 40 years time when they won't be around - but their children and grandchildren will be though.

Everyone with a brain - even the owners of the global corporations or the rulers of the countries with all the fossil fuels, know what is going to happen but they simply don't care - their children and grandchildren will be fabulously wealthy and can buy the best protection they can for whatever they will have to face in years to come - it's the rest of us that will suffer.

It is what it is though - humans have generally always been stupid and selfish - law of the jungle type thing.

I'll not be around to see things go bad but my daughter will and if she has kids they will live to see how things go from bad to worse - and they will - the science is clear enough to know what will happen - the planet has gone through a phase like this once before several billon years ago.

It is all clearly explained in the BBC iplayer series 'Earth'

I highly recommend watching it but as it isn't being shown on GB News I know W63 won't be troubling himself to learn what he is in total denial about...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0fpwly8/earth-series-1-1-inferno

Or just maybe Sluffy those countries know more than a gullible, brainwashed idiot like you?

karlypants wrote:And what is going on with the MP's doing private deals with this green energy bollocks?

Steady Karly we don’t want the likes of Sluffy to know that the main green energy pushers are really in this for the money, that’s only those involved with oil and gas isn’t it?

Whitesince63 wrote:

karlypants wrote:And what is going on with the MP's doing private deals with this green energy bollocks?

Steady Karly we don’t want the likes of Sluffy to know that the main green energy pushers are really in this for the money, that’s only those involved with oil and gas isn’t it?

To be honest I'm not sure what Karly is referring to?

But saying that whatever it is, the companies who are going to design, build and supply the green energy will rightly expect a return on their investment.

I'm sure everything will have been covered under the Energy Act that came into Law last month -

The Energy Bill was given Royal Assent on Thursday 26 October and is now an Act of Parliament (law).

The Energy Bill aims to increase energy reliability, while supporting the UK's climate change commitments and minimising consumer costs, by leveraging investment in clean technologies and maintaining the safety, security and resilience of energy systems.
https://www.parliament.uk/business/news/2022/july-2022/lords-considers-energy-bill/

Whitesince63 wrote:Or just maybe Sluffy those countries know more than a gullible, brainwashed idiot like you?

And maybe I am a gullible, brainwashed idiot, and yes I'm certain the sum of knowledge in any country would be grater in total than my knowledge could ever be but it still doesn't change the laws of physics which arw of course universal.

The current global warming is down to man made burning of fossil fuel as can be proven by the CO2 isotope driving the global warming.

Even if all the countries in the world pooled their knowledge they still could not change the Laws of physics.
The current global warming is man made, through the burning of fossil fuels releasing CO2 with a specific finger print/DNA in the form of its isotope.

That my right wing nutjob is a FACT whether you recognise it as such or remain in denial of it forever!

Sluffy, for a start the cost of bringing the grid up to standard to be even halfway capable of delivering the electricity needed is according to National Grid around £3 trillion. Add to that the cost of recharging mechanisms and other infrastructure to deliver it, fitment of heat pumps or similar, residential system upgrades such as insulation, radiators etc, removal of gas boilers, shutting down of the gas network and those for starters will add thousands to individual homes. Then start imagining all the Pylons traversing the country, the huge sub stations needed, farm land taken up with solar panels and the whole thing is pure pie in the sky. It will not happen. 

If CO2 is the cause of so many problems then carbon capture is a better solution but better still would be investment in carbon free/reduced fuels which will be suitable for use in conventional ICE engines. We are only at the start of serious battery technology so if electricity really is the answer to our prayers then let’s get that sorted first. The whole net zero argument is built on sand and timescales totally fictitious with scare tactics just to convince the gullible that we need to act now. Clearly you’re a believer, no problem with that but what are you doing to save the planet. EV, Heat Pump, extra insulation? Even if you have either of the first two don’t you think you’ll still need fossil fuel oil to lubricate them. Unless you’re planning to go vegan, wear hair shirt clothes you’re doing nothing to prevent this vision of disaster that you’ve been convinced of. It’s bollocks Sluffy and one day you’ll wake up to it.

Whitesince63 wrote:Sluffy, for a start the cost of bringing the grid up to standard to be even halfway capable of delivering the electricity needed is according to National Grid around £3 trillion. Add to that the cost of recharging mechanisms and other infrastructure to deliver it, fitment of heat pumps or similar, residential system upgrades such as insulation, radiators etc, removal of gas boilers, shutting down of the gas network and those for starters will add thousands to individual homes. Then start imagining all the Pylons traversing the country, the huge sub stations needed, farm land taken up with solar panels and the whole thing is pure pie in the sky. It will not happen. 

If CO2 is the cause of so many problems then carbon capture is a better solution but better still would be investment in carbon free/reduced fuels which will be suitable for use in conventional ICE engines. We are only at the start of serious battery technology so if electricity really is the answer to our prayers then let’s get that sorted first. The whole net zero argument is built on sand and timescales totally fictitious with scare tactics just to convince the gullible that we need to act now. Clearly you’re a believer, no problem with that but what are you doing to save the planet. EV, Heat Pump, extra insulation? Even if you have either of the first two don’t you think you’ll still need fossil fuel oil to lubricate them. Unless you’re planning to go vegan, wear hair shirt clothes you’re doing nothing to prevent this vision of disaster that you’ve been convinced of. It’s bollocks Sluffy and one day you’ll wake up to it.

The science isn't bollocks though, unfortunately mankind has created an unavoidable, global, natural disaster for itself.

It is going to happen - that is a given.

The only question is what if anything can we do to mitigate the worst of it.

You panic yourself with your lists of what needs to be done, clearly that is impossible to achieve in one day and pointless doing it alone if no other nations don't their bits either.

The longest journey they say begins with the first step - some say the only way you can eat an elephant is by one mouthful at a time - both proverbs amount to the same thing, namely we start the process that will take years, probably decades to get to where we need to be - even then we (the Earth) may not make it in time - but the point is we have to make a start - we all do.

You ask what I do - I have in fact told you before but no doubt you couldn't be bothered to read the few paragraphs I wrote at the time - as you appear not want to listen to those views you disagree with and prefer to live in denial than face the facts.

I tend to walk rather than drive anytime I can, I turn the heating down if I'm alone, I recycle, keep and reuse carrier bags from the supermarkets, etc, etc.

I'm not a hippy or an eco evangelist, I'm just a normal person doing the little bit I can, more in the knowledge to myself that I've tried to do something, no matter how small it really is, to give something back to the world we live in and which God willing will still be in a fit enough state to sustain my daughter and her kids for the fullness of their life's as well.

You may call me a dreamer, but I'm not the only one (as John Lennon sang) I hope someday you will join me W63 and the world will live (on) as one - rather to have by then burnt everything to a crisp.  

Wishful thinking maybe but if we don't take that first step or first bite then we are never going to make that journey or eat that elephant, are we?

Clearly it doesn't help if the country hosting the next Earth summit is flogging off loads of fossil fuels themselves from their backdoor - undermines the whole thing really doesn't it?

Unfortunately for planet Earth there are far more in Team W63 than there will ever be in Team Sluffy and probably always will be until it is too late.


NOTE - No elephants were harmed or consumed in the writing of this post.

Sluffy, I think most people walk where they can or as in my case use public transport instead of driving now I have a bus pass. I always recycle everything I can and always properly unlike some. I do as much as I can to use less energy, only have the heating on when it’s necessary, always turn lights off and have made sure my boiler is as efficient as possible. All these things I do because I personally can see a benefit. What I can’t control, like you yourself said, is what the likes of China, Russia et al do and so whatever we do here will have little or no impact I’m afraid. 

Whether I agree with you on CO2 levels or not will make absolutely no difference I’m afraid so I think the elephants are safe from us for now. I’m afraid I don’t share your views on net zero which I believe is just a huge con to enable certain people to make billions whilst the likes of you and I pay for it. As for my grandkids, I have absolutely no fears for them that we can do anything about on climate change but there are other issues that we can and I’d rather worry about them thanks.

Whitesince63 wrote:Sluffy, I think most people walk where they can or as in my case use public transport instead of driving now I have a bus pass. I always recycle everything I can and always properly unlike some. I do as much as I can to use less energy, only have the heating on when it’s necessary, always turn lights off and have made sure my boiler is as efficient as possible. All these things I do because I personally can see a benefit. What I can’t control, like you yourself said, is what the likes of China, Russia et al do and so whatever we do here will have little or no impact I’m afraid. 

Whether I agree with you on CO2 levels or not will make absolutely no difference I’m afraid so I think the elephants are safe from us for now. I’m afraid I don’t share your views on net zero which I believe is just a huge con to enable certain people to make billions whilst the likes of you and I pay for it. As for my grandkids, I have absolutely no fears for them that we can do anything about on climate change but there are other issues that we can and I’d rather worry about them thanks.

Good.

At least you see a need to do something - and you are - many aren't.

Yes what you and me are doing amounts virtually to nothing in the scheme of things but if we all do our bits it does start to add up to at least something - and that something is better than nothing.

That something is a start, it is that little bit better for the planet than if we had done nothing - agreed?

Don't get hung about about net Zero, it's just a phrase, a concept an idea, a plan even - doesn't mean it will end up being what it says on the tin now - the way you should be looking at it is the same as what you and me have been doing, a start, a move towards doing something, rather than having done nothing.  No country is going to bankrupt itself doing this alone, all western countries are mindful of keeping the electorate happy in order to stay in power, so even if needed there won't be any draconian changes - look how long and how much it cost to build a bloody train line to Birmingham (and the bits to Manchester and Leeds have already been scrapped) so the country simply isn't going to have wind turbines on every hill top or heat pumps in every home - its simply more likely that every new built homes may one day have to have them similar if you will as how the country is planning to end the production of petrol and diesel cars.

What I'm saying it will take time - in other words it is a start.

Even the likes of China isn't totally stupid sooner or later they will have to accept the planet has changed and they will have to do something they should have done years earlier - but that is how it works - people are selfish, greedy and stupid - we always have been - probably always will be too.

You need to park your Tory propaganda that you clearly have been following and start to think and act rationally - net zero isn't going to be achieved by the Tory Party, the Labour Party or any other party, just think of it as some form of slowly moving from doing nothing to doing something towards helping the planet - but in step with all the other nations - and not in front of them.

And I don't care what you think/believe about man made global warming - I know the laws of physics and I know what they are telling us.

You can stick your head as deeply as you like into the sand - the damage has already been done and is continuing to be made worse - all we can do is take our foot collectively off the accelerate and one day start to begin breaking before it really is too late.

Sluffy wrote:

Good.

At least you see a need to do something - and you are - many aren't.

Yes what you and me are doing amounts virtually to nothing in the scheme of things but if we all do our bits it does start to add up to at least something - and that something is better than nothing.

That something is a start, it is that little bit better for the planet than if we had done nothing - agreed?

Don't get hung about about net Zero, it's just a phrase, a concept an idea, a plan even - doesn't mean it will end up being what it says on the tin now - the way you should be looking at it is the same as what you and me have been doing, a start, a move towards doing something, rather than having done nothing.  No country is going to bankrupt itself doing this alone, all western countries are mindful of keeping the electorate happy in order to stay in power, so even if needed there won't be any draconian changes - look how long and how much it cost to build a bloody train line to Birmingham (and the bits to Manchester and Leeds have already been scrapped) so the country simply isn't going to have wind turbines on every hill top or heat pumps in every home - its simply more likely that every new built homes may one day have to have them similar if you will as how the country is planning to end the production of petrol and diesel cars.

What I'm saying it will take time - in other words it is a start.

Even the likes of China isn't totally stupid sooner or later they will have to accept the planet has changed and they will have to do something they should have done years earlier - but that is how it works - people are selfish, greedy and stupid - we always have been - probably always will be too.

You need to park your Tory propaganda that you clearly have been following and start to think and act rationally - net zero isn't going to be achieved by the Tory Party, the Labour Party or any other party, just think of it as some form of slowly moving from doing nothing to doing something towards helping the planet - but in step with all the other nations - and not in front of them.

And I don't care what you think/believe about man made global warming - I know the laws of physics and I know what they are telling us.

You can stick your head as deeply as you like into the sand - the damage has already been done and is continuing to be made worse - all we can do is take our foot collectively off the accelerate and one day start to begin breaking before it really is too late.

Sluffy, just to clarify, I don’t recycle with a save the planet attitude, though I do particularly feel we must all consider the environmental situation when disposing of plastics which can be recycled and used again. Similarly tins and cardboard can also be recycled and general waste incinerated. It just makes sense to do it. Also, whilst I don’t share your views on CO2, I walk or use public transport where I can for both exercise and to save money on fuel and also because it’s one of the free things I get for being an old git. 

I know that you are totally convinced by the fossil fuel is bad lobby and CO2 being “proved” according to you to be the cause of Global Warming and I do fully respect your right to hold that view but along with an increasing number of environmentalists, scientists and physicists who take a different view I don’t subscribe to it. That’s my choice, I’m entitled to it and I haven’t seen anything to change it.

One absolutely indisputable fact is Sluffy that neither of us will be here to see if we’re right so there is little point our disagreeing over it. None of the major CO2 producers are going to relent so it’s only going to be the likes of our children who are going to be punished by our completely fruitless efforts to meet net zero timescales as governments in the virtue signalling west destroy our economies by removing a perfectly economic and efficient energy supply network by pinning our futures on systems that will never work. That won’t stop them destroying our countryside with windmills and solar farms and thousands of miles of ugly pylons in order to supply the EVs, Heat pumps and other paraphernalia that they’ll force upon us by removing what’s there now. If you think that’s worth it more fool you but hopefully the people like me will eventually force politicians of its folly before it becomes irreversible.